Author Topic: Religion (Read 132142 times)

Bla · « **on:** August 07, 2009, 11:52:29 AM »

Discuss religion here and vote in the poll.

Also: The I'm not sure option is sort of redundant, given that none of the other ones claim to be sure, but I didn't think that when I made the poll. Also, the option about believing in a personal god, but no religion, wasn't meant as a god which is personal, but more like your own version of it, or deism.

So basically:

Polytheism
Monotheism
Deism/non-religious monotheism
Agnostic atheism (very agnostic!)
Agnostic and gnostic atheism

I'm a slightly agnostic atheist.

witold · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:05:06 PM »

I say short. Im religious

atomic7732 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:30:52 PM »

Why do you talk about them if your atheist? (Hope this isn't a bother)

FGFG · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:46:33 PM »

Oops I voted too fast. I voted Atheist, but I'm agnostic (not sure).

Well I find too difficult to believe in the Christian or in other gods. I would like to believe in one of them because my life would be more... "happy": I wouldn't fear death... Not believing in God(s) implies that there isn't life after the death.

I'm a scientific person, and scientists nowadays discovered how Earth was created and that life evolved (in opposition to the Holy Bible), and they are very near to understand how our universe is here.

The intelligence and conscience (what religion calls "soul") is most probably an emergent comportment of the complex system "brain" (after all it is composed only by neurons that shoot electricity to their neighbours); it's the same mechanism that permits ants to build anthill, they are stupid but they can build masterpieces of engineering.

Probably in 50 years (before my death... I hope...) we will create the first A.I. with the intelligence of a human brain. Robots will be born, and probably they will feel emotions just like us (and in that case I will call them "life"), as emotions are another emergent comportment of the brain. Actually we are near to create life itself.

If a God(s) exists it couldn't be like the Christian one described in the Holy Bible (In my opinion)

Bla · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:57:18 PM »

NeutronStar, I'll pm you about why.

Btw good answer FGFG, I think you can revote (I enabled that option).

FGFG · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2009, 01:03:07 PM »

Thank you both for the compliment and for enabling that option. Already revoted.

Bla · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2009, 01:06:32 PM »

I feel alone being the only atheist.

Darn, I shouldn't have enabled it.

FGFG · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2009, 01:18:06 PM »

I'm agnostic, but I'm very near to atheism.

Bla · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2009, 02:35:13 PM »

Quote from: Naru523 on August 07, 2009, 02:32:36 PM

Quote from: Bla on August 07, 2009, 01:06:32 PM
I feel alone being the only atheist.

Don't worry, Im one too

Just for fun, heh.

Please vote if you want to.

witold · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2009, 02:47:13 PM »

Only Atheist im pretty confused

Bla · « **Reply #10 on:** August 08, 2009, 02:09:28 AM »

Perhaps Naru523 voted "Yes, I believe in a religion with more than one god." by a mistake... That's the only thing I can think of, but I've enabled the option to revote so if he did it he can revote.

FGFG · « **Reply #11 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:46:21 PM »

Did the debate ended here?

witold · « **Reply #12 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:59:12 PM »

Quote from: FGFG on August 08, 2009, 03:46:21 PM

Did the debate ended here?

Yup

. I this small interest topic $:-\$

FGFG · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2009, 04:12:16 PM »

I will go on then

How do you think that God(s) interacts with the world, and if you don't believe in any god, why?

HallowedError · « **Reply #14 on:** August 08, 2009, 07:08:37 PM »

I voted personal god. I believe that something created the universe. What that is I don't know. If it's still paying any attention to humans or had anything to do with humans at all, I don't know. I just don't believe that a condensed spot of matter came outta nowhere.

Bla · « **Reply #15 on:** August 09, 2009, 05:11:38 AM »

I don't believe in a god because if it requires a god to create intelligence, it would just require an higher intelligence to create the god and on and on and on.
Then you could say that the god has always been there, but then I don't see the problem with an universe before our own, collapsing and creating Big Bang.

And, personally I just choose to believe in the natural before the supernatural. So, if something can't be explained by science, I try to think logically and find a natural explanation instead of saying "god made it happen".

There are also far too many contradictions and fails in the religions for me to believe in them.
I could never deny a scientific fact or theory just to believe in a religion. And I don't understand why some religious people believe that religions cause people to have better morals and better lives. If I read a holy book, all I see is people getting killed because they carry sticks on sundays or people who get killed because they don't worship a god. And statistics show that there are more religious people who commit crime in percent than atheists. And atheists don't divorce as often as religious people, but still there are some religious people who believe atheists are evil and cruel like... This:
YouTube video - If Atheists Ruled the World

HallowedError · « **Reply #16 on:** August 09, 2009, 08:01:14 AM »

Well, nothing about the universe actually makes sense. We just think it does because that's how we grew up. Why does light have a set speed? Why to particles attract each other (gravity)? Why do things have mass?

EDIT: These discussions are always interesting to me because no one can win

FGFG · « **Reply #17 on:** August 09, 2009, 09:56:24 AM »

Quote from: Bla on August 09, 2009, 05:11:38 AM

YouTube video - If Atheists Ruled the World

It was so hard to finish to see this video. It's so closeminded.

I'm atheist but I don't smoke and I don't like aborts or when a life is cut because I think that life is one of the best things in the Universe and I respect it over all the other things, infact I'm against war and death penalty for any reason (even religious: I'll never kill Christians because they believe in God; Everyone is free to believe in what he wants).

The moral isn't the religion. They are 2 different things.

About evolution: there are proofs that confirm it! An example? Dogs. Many races was created by crossing other dog races. Some centuries ago (not millions of years) they weren't on this planet.
P.s. what do they think about dinosaurs and their fossils?

About science "big words". You see a complicate word and you don't know its meaning? You can take a simple book called "Dictionary"... And, however, I didn't see any of this "big words" unexplained on the school books for example.

Bla · « **Reply #18 on:** August 09, 2009, 11:11:56 PM »

Quote from: HallowedError on August 09, 2009, 08:01:14 AM

Well, nothing about the universe actually makes sense. We just think it does because that's how we grew up. Why does light have a set speed? Why to particles attract each other (gravity)? Why do things have mass?

EDIT: These discussions are always interesting to me because no one can win

In fact, light moves faster or slower in other mediums than vacuum (sorry for the mistake with water, lol, but there is a material in which where photons can move... Wait, no, I think it's wr... Aaaargh! I'm confuzzled, but I think there was a material where photons could move faster than in vacuum, strange... I know there is something where light moves slower and molecules can move faster than the light, but perhaps that's what I'm confusing it with)...
Anyways, the discussions are win-able. I often discuss on the EA forum and it isn't that hard to win, most of those in there don't really know so much about space, biology and stuff, so...

Okay, there are some other clever people in there, but usually they're on my side anyways.

One of them actually posted a great page with evidence for evolution. I'll post it if you want to see it.

Also if you want to see any of the other discussions, I can post them too.

FGFG · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:13:25 AM »

Quote from: Bla on August 09, 2009, 11:11:56 PM

In fact, light only has a set speed in vacuum, in water it can move faster than in space (:O).

Arrgh!! What I see!!

In water light travels slower!

Quote from: Bla on August 09, 2009, 11:11:56 PM

One of them actually posted a great page with evidence for evolution. I'll post it if you want to see it.
Also if you want to see any of the other discussions, I can post them too.

You can link them, to not create mess here

Magnetar · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2009, 02:06:46 AM »

Quote from: FGFG on August 09, 2009, 09:56:24 AM

About evolution: there are proofs that confirm it! An example? Dogs. Many races was created by crossing other dog races. Some centuries ago (not millions of years) they weren't on this planet.
P.s. what do they think about dinosaurs and their fossils?

It are not just dogs. Actually all the kind of animals you can enjoy eating during a visit in a fast food restaurant are products of human controlled breeding. A forced evolutionary process in which the breeder becomes the selector and decides which properties are good and which are bad. The difference in a natural environment is, that the natural selection process is less aggressive and therefor animals which are worser adapted to their environment will still be able to breed, however they are going to be repressed by the better adapted in the long run because the better adapted are better capable of reproduction.

FGFG · « **Reply #21 on:** August 10, 2009, 02:34:43 AM »

exactly

Bla · « **Reply #22 on:** August 10, 2009, 03:15:44 AM »

Sorry, FGFG, I've re-written the area in my message, thanks for the correction lol (how embarrasing

).
Anyways...
10 human parts
A nice post that shows some good evidence for the human evolution.

Discussion thread 1
Discussion thread 2
Discussion thread 3
These are some of the discussions about religions (or where religious debates started)...

And wait a second... I know the water-thing was false, but Wikipedia says this at least:

Quote

(Visible) light that travels through transparent matter does so at a lower speed than c, the speed of light in a vacuum. X-rays, on the other hand, usually have a phase velocity above c, as evidenced by total external reflection.

FGFG · « **Reply #23 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:34:08 AM »

I think that the phase velocity is not the velocity of the photons itself.

atomic7732 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:38:35 AM »

Phase velocity is...
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=phase+velocity

HallowedError · « **Reply #25 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:00:51 AM »

I think the eye is the worst example of evolution. It's a ridiculously complicated organ. I'm not saying evolution doesn't exist. It's just things like the eye make me think that evolution is guided in some way.

I couldn't watch the youtube video, I could tell by the name if it that it would irk me. I think of atheists as pessimists. I admit that I would really like some sort of afterlife.

Bla · « **Reply #26 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:09:13 PM »

Quote from: HallowedError on August 10, 2009, 08:00:51 AM

I think the eye is the worst example of evolution. It's a ridiculously complicated organ. I'm not saying evolution doesn't exist. It's just things like the eye make me think that evolution is guided in some way.

I couldn't watch the youtube video, I could tell by the name if it that it would irk me. I think of atheists as pessimists. I admit that I would really like some sort of afterlife.

The Evolution of Irreducible Complexity
Examples: The Bombardier Beetle and The Evolution of the Flagellum

Irreductible complexity doesn't mean a thing cannot have evolved.

Top 10 List Why Anti-Evolutionists are WRONG - one of them shows the eye. (Reason 6)

Quote from: Video

Start with a photo sensitive cell, you can tell if it's day or night. The cells expand into a patch of cells... You are more sensitive... The patch of cells become concave... You have some directionality... The patch of cells become very concave... You have more directionality... Clear cells form over the opening... Your proto-eye is protected... The clear cells refract the light... The image gains more detail... The clear cells focus the light... The image gains more detail...

Why do you think atheists are pessimists btw?

Btw the fact that we would like something is not an argument for it to exist - like I would really like a cake on the table when I go upstairs so I can eat it, sadly it's just very likely that there isn't one (ok, I wouldn't like a cake at all because it's unhealthy, but just to give an example).

I'm an atheist because I cannot accept answers that makes me rely on belief rather than evidence.
Here are some clever quotes from Richard Dawkins and some other atheists: Link

HallowedError · « **Reply #27 on:** August 10, 2009, 06:59:50 PM »

But without the wanting of a table, it would not exist. Maybe just the belief in an afterlife will make it exist. Maybe you are right, there was a ridiculously large amount of matter in a small space and you know the rest.

I just want to know if science will ever explain the true spark of life. Where did the first cell come from? A meteor? A comet? There are certain things that science cannot explain. And if science can't, what do you turn to?

atomic7732 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:31:19 PM »

Quote from: HallowedError on August 10, 2009, 06:59:50 PM

But without the wanting of a table, it would not exist.

Yes, because, if you don't want one, what's the need of it!

Quote from: HallowedError on August 10, 2009, 06:59:50 PM

I just want to know if science will ever explain the true spark of life. Where did the first cell come from? A meteor? A comet? There are certain things that science cannot explain. And if science can't, what do you turn to?

Hmmm...

Dan Dixon · « **Reply #29 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:06:59 PM »

I'm really proud of everyone for having such a civil conversation about a potentially contentious topic.

Thanks!

Poll

Are you religious?

Author Topic: Religion (Read 132142 times)