Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.  (Read 8776 times)

FiahOwl

  • *****
  • Posts: 1234
  • This is, to give a dog and in recompense desire my dog again.
Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« on: January 05, 2012, 09:48:49 AM »
Alright, so lets see. First, we are going to look at a close binary pair.

Now I'm modeling Thero as a desert planet. The emissivity is around 82, (due to water) and the albedo at 41.

Now Thero is way outside of the habitable zones of the two stars. But it is around 8 C, or 45 degrees Fahrenheit (Earth is 15 C, or 59 degrees Fahrenheit)! Why? Because the combined energy from the two stars (.49 Luminosity and .51 Luminosity) Pushes the habitable zone outwards (Keep in mind that sand reflects more then 4 times as much light as water, and 3-4.5 times as much as soil/forest; so probably it would have hotter then earth temperatures if it was earth-like).

ShoeUnited

  • ****
  • Posts: 47
  • Non opus est, si pretium non habetis.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 09:59:00 AM »
What kind of stars are involved.  UV radiation is a factor in habitablity.  I'm not sure if just due to being binary the habitability is increased two-fold.  I'd imagine cosmic rays would increase radiation levels at the normal habitable zone.  It may factor in closer to square over the distance, but I'd have to break out my books to confirm.  It is an interesting scenario.   Personally, I've been poking around recreating a couple of fictional planetary systems:

Arrakis from Dune

Chiron from Alpha Centauri (usually called 'Planet') that would orbit the -then- binary system by doing a figure 8 around the two stars.

A proper Endor/Death Star (Endor was a forest moon of a larger giant planet.)

This looks pretty cool all the same.  Can't wait to see it run. ^-^

FiahOwl

  • *****
  • Posts: 1234
  • This is, to give a dog and in recompense desire my dog again.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 10:05:09 AM »
Chiron from Alpha Centauri (usually called 'Planet') that would orbit the -then- binary system by doing a figure 8 around the two stars.

Sounds very... Unstable.

Quote
What kind of stars are involved.

The website I use to calculate the spectral class of the stars is down :(

But they are both .82 solar masses, which means less UV Radiation per star.

ShoeUnited

  • ****
  • Posts: 47
  • Non opus est, si pretium non habetis.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2012, 10:23:13 AM »
Chiron from Alpha Centauri (usually called 'Planet') that would orbit the -then- binary system by doing a figure 8 around the two stars.

Sounds very... Unstable.

Quote
What kind of stars are involved.

The website I use to calculate the spectral class of the stars is down :(

But they are both .82 solar masses, which means less UV Radiation per star.

Haha, yeah I'd imagine.   In the game every time the local fauna would attain sentience the planet would pass through the gravitational center of both stars.  The radiation exposure would cause a mass extinction. 

smjjames

  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2012, 10:35:19 AM »
Chiron from Alpha Centauri (usually called 'Planet') that would orbit the -then- binary system by doing a figure 8 around the two stars.

Sounds very... Unstable.

I can attest to that, having done an Alpha Centauri system accrete. I had many planets that would get swung between the two stars, especially if they are far out. But they don't stay in such a figure 8 orbit for long as they'll get into an exaggerated figure 8 orbit and eventually get flung out, go right between the two suns and slingshot out (happened a couple times), or settle into a new orbit. I actually had one gas giant which kept swapping suns and got shot out very late (the last few hundred years) of the accretion period.

As for Chiron, I'm pretty sure it didn't orbit both at the same time in the game.

smjjames

  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2012, 10:39:00 AM »
As far as habitability goes, I didn't see any significant change when I did the Alpha Centauri system. I still have the system though if you guys want to take a closer look. I don't have time to do so atm.

smjjames

  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 04:40:59 PM »
In making another binary system experiment, I observed some things about habitability for bnary systems and did an offshoot experiment. Even assuming the orbit of a planet around a close binary is stable, the planet will see rapid swings in temperature which would give life serious challenges, but not impossible. After all, if given even the smallest chance, life will take hold.

A quick note, I'm using fiahtexta46, which is a great desert planet texture and I had to halve the visual brightness of the suns because it looked like a magnifying glass was targeted on it otherwise, however that doesn't seem to get saved.

Part one:

The orbit of Tatoonie (yes, Tatoonie :D ) is similar to the habitable planet of the second experiment that I mentioned. I've noticed a bit of wobble with it in the main experiment, but it seems like it is the normal orbital wobble and for all I know, it's stable. At this position, while the temperatures are survivable by life (silicon based maybe?), it sees temperature swings of 20+ degrees F (10 or so degrees C).


Part two:

Further out this time, I put it to where it initially is slightly higher than Earths average temperature. While the temperatures are certainly more pleasant, the swings are the same and here you can see better the extremes. It would be like going through the seasons every week, creating huge climatic chaos.


On a side note, shouldn't the temperature change when one star goes behind the other? I know it affects visual luminosity because some some variable stars are actually binaries.

Even if a stable orbit ends up in the habitable zone, life will be very tough in a close binary with red dwarf stars. The same is probably true for K and G types, but life might have an easier time with those. Given the great diversity of binary combinations and distances, some are going to be friendlier for life than others.

FiahOwl

  • *****
  • Posts: 1234
  • This is, to give a dog and in recompense desire my dog again.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 06:28:24 PM »
A quick note, I'm using fiahtexta46, which is a great desert planet texture

Awww.. Thanks ;D


Quote
it sees temperature swings of 20+ degrees F (10 or so degrees C).

Ouch.

Quote
On a side note, shouldn't the temperature change when one star goes behind the other? I know it affects visual luminosity because some some variable stars are actually binaries.

Yes!


Nice simulations :D


Dan Dixon

  • Creator of Universe Sandbox
  • Developer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3244
    • Personal Site
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2012, 11:05:59 PM »
Those are cool.

Can't wait until we get a proper sharing system setup for simulations. That way people will be able to discover and explore simulations you create without ever leaving Universe Sandbox. :)


smjjames

  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 10:15:22 AM »
Those are cool.

Can't wait until we get a proper sharing system setup for simulations. That way people will be able to discover and explore simulations you create without ever leaving Universe Sandbox. :)

Thanks and yea an in-program sharing and exploring capability woild be awesome. Not to mention allow those who aren't active in the community (or even registered to the forum) to showcase thier stuff.

Omnigeek6

  • *****
  • Posts: 111
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2012, 06:02:55 PM »
I have a couple comments I would like to make.

@Fiah: Because sand reflects more light than ocean, more radiation is reflected into space. A higher albedo actually cools the planet.

@Shoe: Circumbinary planets would actually experience less ultraviolet flux than planets around a single star. This is because the smaller and less luminous a main sequence star is, the less of its total light output is UV. Hence, two 0.84 solar mass stars would have the same combined luminosity of the sun, but emit less UV.
However, tidal or magnetic field interactions between the stars might increase flares or similar activity which would put stress on the magnetic field of the planet.

@smjames: This is a valid point: circumbinary planets would undergo temperature swings due to varying insolation. However, so do planets that orbit single stars (how much sunlight does the night side of Earth recieve?). The insolation changes from stellar position would last longer, but be much less intense than the changes resulting from the planet's rotation.

According to your reasoning, the Earth's rotation should be like going through the seasons every 24 hours, creating huge climatic chaos. But this doesn't happen. Why?

Well, the Earth's atmosphere and oceans have a LOT of thermal inertia. In fact, the hottest and coldest times of the year (in the northern hemisphere) are in January and July - a whole month after the solstices - because it takes so long for the planet to actually cool down. In general, the stars in a system with a habitable circumbinary planet will have an orbital period of significantly less than this. In short, the actual temperature flux will be much less than the 10 K predicted by comparing the equilibrium temperatures.

Now, there are points on Earth that do experience day/night temperature changes of well over 10 K: deserts. Because there's less water vapor in desert air, the greenhouse effect is reduced, and temperature changes are larger. However, these temperature changes do not result in "climatic chaos." In fact, the temperature cycling is pretty predictable, and life can easily adapt (for example, many desert animals are nocturnal to avoid high temperatures during the day, and many plants shut down during the hottest parts of the day to save water.

The effect eclipses would have on climate would be negligible: eclipses would be brief, and if the planet's orbit was inclined relative to that of the stars by more than a few degrees, they would only occur twice a year:

Note: the intensity of temperature changes would be affected by two main factors. First, the closer together the stars are, the less the luminosity change (each star's distance from the planet changes less) and the shorter the duration of the cycle (smaller separation = shorter orbital period). Second, the greater the thermal inertia of the planet (more ocean, higher average temperature (which results in more water vapor in the atmosphere, causing a stronger greenhouse effect), higher atmospheric pressure, and higher concentrations of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane all increase thermal inertia), the less the temperature change. So, desert planets like Tatooine would have fairly large temperature changes, while ocean planets like Kepler 22b would have almost none.



In general, whether the planet orbits one star or two affects climate much less than axis tilt and orbital eccentricity.

smjjames

  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2012, 07:08:43 PM »
That wasn't my reasoning. We're talking about average global temperature here and I was thinking of the large amount of temperature change with the atmosphere which would be more extreme weather and temperature change. Of course though, I don't know that much about atmospheric thermal dynamics in a situation like this. Still, you're right, it's much more likely to average out over time. I do know that the composition of the atmosphere and the density affects the temperature and the dynamics.

Also, we're dealing with a (very) simple atmospheric model here, I don't know how much more advanced the one in US3 will be.

As for life, I never said it wouldn't adapt, just that it would be tough.

As far as the stars go, it was an experiment anyway and since five days allows for a decent amount of speed, I wanted to try that. Take a look at my other thread, that binary pair orbits in about a day, which would certainly be more typical. However that pair is a sunlike star that is slightly more massive and slightly brighter while the compainion is a class M9 red dwarf. In fact, it's only several jupiter masses before US no longer considers it a star. I checked and the heat contribution is negligible, in fact it probably contributes more to the emitted spectrum than it does for heat hitting the planets. The one or two degree wobble of the temperature would easily average out anyway.

FiahOwl

  • *****
  • Posts: 1234
  • This is, to give a dog and in recompense desire my dog again.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2012, 07:37:51 PM »
I have a couple comments I would like to make.

@Fiah: Because sand reflects more light than ocean, more radiation is reflected into space. A higher albedo actually cools the planet.

I stated that here:

Quote
<snip>that sand reflects more then 4 times as much light as water, and 3-4.5 times as much as soil/forest; so probably it would have hotter then earth temperatures if it was earth-like). </snip>


Omnigeek6

  • *****
  • Posts: 111
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2012, 11:57:57 PM »
I have a couple comments I would like to make.

@Fiah: Because sand reflects more light than ocean, more radiation is reflected into space. A higher albedo actually cools the planet.

I stated that here:

Quote
<snip>that sand reflects more then 4 times as much light as water, and 3-4.5 times as much as soil/forest; so probably it would have hotter then earth temperatures if it was earth-like). </snip>

I'm confused. Are you saying that the high albedo of the sand makes the planet hotter or colder?



FiahOwl

  • *****
  • Posts: 1234
  • This is, to give a dog and in recompense desire my dog again.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2012, 08:00:17 AM »
Quote
I'm confused. Are you saying that the high albedo of the sand makes the planet hotter or colder?

Uh... It's a desert planet.

Quote
sand reflects more then 4 times as much light as water, and 3-4.5 times as much as soil/forest

Quote
would have hotter then earth temperatures if it was earth-like).

Omnigeek6

  • *****
  • Posts: 111
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2012, 04:29:36 PM »
Quote
I'm confused. Are you saying that the high albedo of the sand makes the planet hotter or colder?

Uh... It's a desert planet.

Quote
sand reflects more then 4 times as much light as water, and 3-4.5 times as much as soil/forest

Quote
would have hotter then earth temperatures if it was earth-like).

The high albedo of sand will, on average, make the planet colder. Deserts aren't hot because they're sandy, they're hot because they're dry. To be more precise, because deserts have little water in the atmosphere to absorb heat (water has a very high heat capacity) desert areas experience very high temperatures during the day, but very cold temperatures at night.

Quote from: Wikipedia
Deserts take up about one third (33%) of the Earth's land surface.[2] Hot deserts usually have a large diurnal and seasonal temperature range, with high daytime temperatures, and low nighttime temperatures (due to extremely low humidity). In hot deserts the temperature in the daytime can reach 45 °C/113 °F or higher in the summer, and dip to 0 °C/32 °F or lower at nighttime in the winter. Water vapor in the atmosphere acts to trap long wave infrared radiation from the ground, and dry desert air is incapable of blocking sunlight during the day (due to absence of clouds) or trapping heat during the night. Thus, during daylight most of the sun's heat reaches the ground, and as soon as the sun sets the desert cools quickly by radiating its heat into space. Urban areas in deserts lack large (more than 14 °C/25 °F) daily temperature variations, partially due to the urban heat island effect.

Quote from: Wikipedia
Hot deserts (like cold deserts) may result in average temperature cooling[17] because they reflect more of the incoming light (their albedo is higher than that of water or forests).

FiahOwl

  • *****
  • Posts: 1234
  • This is, to give a dog and in recompense desire my dog again.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2012, 05:01:16 PM »
Thats what I said, silly filly.

Omnigeek6

  • *****
  • Posts: 111
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 08:28:25 PM »
Thats what I said, silly filly.


ohh... do you mean that this desert planet has earthlike temperatures, but a planet with an earthlike albedo and greenhouse effect in the same position would be hotter than Earth?

FiahOwl

  • *****
  • Posts: 1234
  • This is, to give a dog and in recompense desire my dog again.
Re: Discussion On The Habitability Of Binary Systems.
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2012, 08:37:20 PM »
Thats what I said, silly filly.


ohh... do you mean that this desert planet has earthlike temperatures, but a planet with an earthlike albedo and greenhouse effect in the same position would be hotter than Earth?

Yes :P