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Author Topic: Politics  (Read 317343 times)

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #630 on: April 13, 2014, 04:30:27 PM »
You're free to do and think whatever you want... no one is forcing you to use or buy Universe Sandbox or the upcoming sequel which will have a strong focus on climate simulation (in order to provide education about human caused climate change).

I do not condone religious bigotry, but have no problem with the open discussion and critique of ideas. There's a difference between criticizing someone who is a Christian and criticizing the claims of Christianity.

And please point out where on the forum members are attacking people personally (and not ideas).

Either way... I please ask that you not personally attack member of the forum.

I see, so you think you can hide behind a wall that you are simply attacking ideas, not a group of people that hold to those ideas. You think that is intellectually sound?  I don't think it will hold up, it hasn't anywhere else.

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #631 on: April 13, 2014, 04:32:35 PM »
isn't that the only way to do things?

aren't all the preprints on arxiv about ideas and not people? it's holding up pretty well.

in terms of intellectual soundness, ideas are more intellectual than people, so attacking ideas is more intellectual than attacking people, and more intellectually sound

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #632 on: April 13, 2014, 04:33:28 PM »
Yeah... TheMooCows is a real person and not a carefully crafted conspiracy.

I never implied it wasn't a real person Dan..that's silly.  I simply pointed out the unlikelihood of a person that has only posted once before in 2013 is motivated to post now in this thread during this juncture.

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #633 on: April 13, 2014, 04:34:29 PM »
he's on irc, so i guess he heard all about it :P

tuto99

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Re: Politics
« Reply #634 on: April 13, 2014, 04:35:18 PM »
Phinehas is becoming extremely obnoxious.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #635 on: April 13, 2014, 04:35:43 PM »
congratulations phinehas you've descended to argument level 0, which is name-calling.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #636 on: April 13, 2014, 04:36:37 PM »
well if you think nazi germany was socialist then I have news for you: USA and all its ally friends are socialist too. mostly the corporations though, like mcdonalds or walmart.

You actually think stating others are Socialist somehow refutes the original premise of Nationalsozialismus being a form of Socialism.  It doesn't.

Nazi Germany is socialist, at least in name.

But the truth, as is often the case, is much more nuanced. The Nazi war economy was a mixed economy of free-market and central-planning practices. The government enacted massive deficit spending, largely on arms, that dropped unemployment and fueled an economic bubble that would last into the war years.

Private companies could still exist and collect profit, but they became heavily regulated. Trade unions were abolished, as well as collective bargaining and the right to strike. The right to quit also disappeared: Labor books were introduced in 1935, and required the consent of the previous employer in order to be hired for another job.

Nazi Germany was much more aligned with fascist economic ideals than it ever was with real socialism.

In economics, fascists oppose liberalism (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being exclusive economic class-based movements. Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes resolving economic class conflict to secure national solidarity. They support a regulated, multi-class, integrated national economic system. Fascist economics supports the existence of private property, the existence of a market economy, and the use of the profit motive.

Socialism, on the other hand, is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively. In other words, no profit-driven companies. The state runs everything.

LOL, go figure, You ahve posted twice, your last post was in 2013 and all of a sudden you appear to post in this thread.  Nice try but even a fake consensus with bogus usernames means little.

um...I post in everything else which doesn't count to post total...Also good job attacking me and not my facts. Thanks.

I stand corrected.  I only saw that you posted twice and though that stat was all encompassing.  You would have to admit that if it were the case, my consideration would have been valid.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #637 on: April 13, 2014, 04:37:52 PM »
Phinehas is becoming extremely obnoxious.

No personal attacks here...where is Dan? Let's see if he stops this or his words are hollow.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #638 on: April 13, 2014, 04:39:50 PM »
congratulations phinehas you've descended to argument level 0, which is name-calling.

and your post directed to tuto99 is where?  I don't see it.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #639 on: April 13, 2014, 04:41:14 PM »
We're all replying to you in this thread, nobody is on your side because you haven't told us any solid reasoning as to why we should switch to your side, you've just called us obnoxious, thugs, ignorant, and several other things that I forget.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #640 on: April 13, 2014, 04:44:20 PM »
isn't that the only way to do things?

aren't all the preprints on arxiv about ideas and not people? it's holding up pretty well.

in terms of intellectual soundness, ideas are more intellectual than people, so attacking ideas is more intellectual than attacking people, and more intellectually sound

Setting aside your nonsensical comments, the core of which misses the point...Dan thinks it's intellectually sound to think attacking a person's beliefs is not attacking the personal personally.  A person's beliefs are a part of them as much as the physical..more so.

tuto99

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Re: Politics
« Reply #641 on: April 13, 2014, 04:48:02 PM »
Phinehas stop being childish. I was stating a truth, rather than subjectively naming you something.

Also, please leave. We don't want you here, thank you very much. :)

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #642 on: April 13, 2014, 04:49:12 PM »
We're all replying to you in this thread, nobody is on your side because you haven't told us any solid reasoning as to why we should switch to your side, you've just called us obnoxious, thugs, ignorant, and several other things that I forget.

That's your subjective opinion.  I gave solid reasoning backing Capitalism as an economic system versus Socialism/Communism or any other form of tyranny.  People can make arguments without the goal being to switch anyone's side.  Refuting bad ideas in itself is valid enough.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #643 on: April 13, 2014, 04:51:47 PM »
Phinehas stop being childish. I was stating a truth, rather than subjectively naming you something.

Also, please leave. We don't want you here, thank you very much. :)

So, when you guy's say something, it's stating a truth...go figure. I'm not forcing you to read anything I write on this forum, just ignore and I would be effectively gone in your world.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #644 on: April 13, 2014, 05:05:07 PM »
Well, nobody that matters in the US government is Marxist, for one.

tuto99

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Re: Politics
« Reply #645 on: April 13, 2014, 05:17:43 PM »
Phinehas stop being childish. I was stating a truth, rather than subjectively naming you something.

Also, please leave. We don't want you here, thank you very much. :)
So, when you guy's say something, it's stating a truth...go figure. I'm not forcing you to read anything I write on this forum, just ignore and I would be effectively gone in your world.
Nah, it's a lot better if you are not here.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #646 on: April 13, 2014, 05:17:58 PM »
Well, nobody that matters in the US government is Marxist, for one.

Unfortunately, the president, most of the Senate, about half the Supreme Court and the people running most of the major cities do matter and affect all of us here in America.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #647 on: April 13, 2014, 05:24:03 PM »
I have shown in this political thread the double standard by some and the condoning of religious bigotry.  I was wanting to see how Dan would respond and it's crystal clear now.  Thanks for participating.


"So true. Why should we respect crazy people like these? I mean, if they didn't have the word 'religion' to hide behind, I'd simply call them sick nazis (don't get me wrong - Hitler was religious too, but nazism isn't a religion, and we usually don't respect nazism because we see how crazy it is)." -Bla

"Creationists are idiots." - atomic7732
"Agreed" - Bla


" Even though there are occasional cases of religious idiocy and all that, but luckily not to the extent it seems like in USA."-Bla
"How sad that we as a society still hasn't managed to progress beyond such stupidity."-Bla


"To the extent that you can find good things in Christianity and Islam you'll have to cherry pick. Of course you can always simply ignore the bad parts and pretend that Christianity is good. But the truth is that it's clearly not - and that is equally evident from it's evil influence" -Bla

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #648 on: April 13, 2014, 06:09:36 PM »
Do you have any evidence that that Barack Obama, the democratic portion of the Senate, four of the Supreme Court members, and the mayors of large cities are all communist?

atomic7732

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Re: Politics
« Reply #649 on: April 13, 2014, 06:19:04 PM »
Well, nobody that matters in the US government is Marxist, for one.

Unfortunately, the president, most of the Senate, about half the Supreme Court and the people running most of the major cities do matter and affect all of us here in America.
I find it amazing conservatives and other people like them, who live in heaven here in the United States, find some way to make themselves feel marginalized and persecuted and live in their own little world where everyone is out to get them and they are an oppressed minority. They're living in a delusion of their own construction.

I don't know what kind of world you're living in (not the real world), but when a Marxist takes funding from and supports corporate interests, they're not a Marxist in my eyes (and no one's because they never proclaimed themselves as such nor are they in reality).

Out here in the real world, we're seriously lacking leftists.

Let me draw you a diagram to help illustrate:

« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 06:43:41 PM by atomic7732 »

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #650 on: April 13, 2014, 06:27:34 PM »
isn't that the only way to do things?

aren't all the preprints on arxiv about ideas and not people? it's holding up pretty well.

in terms of intellectual soundness, ideas are more intellectual than people, so attacking ideas is more intellectual than attacking people, and more intellectually sound

Setting aside your nonsensical comments, the core of which misses the point...Dan thinks it's intellectually sound to think attacking a person's beliefs is not attacking the personal personally.  A person's beliefs are a part of them as much as the physical..more so.

when you insult a person's ego, you make them feel bad, which is not the goal. however, when you attack a person's beliefs, they are much less likely to feel insulted because they can shed or adapt new beliefs at any time, the belief is not them. the entire point is to debate beliefs anyways. it is irrelevant what is a part of who to whatever extent

Xriqxa

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Re: Politics
« Reply #651 on: April 14, 2014, 06:49:27 AM »
We're all replying to you in this thread, nobody is on your side because you haven't told us any solid reasoning as to why we should switch to your side, you've just called us obnoxious, thugs, ignorant, and several other things that I forget.
I'm on his side!


This turns out to be a politics page. No wonder.

Xriqxa

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Re: Politics
« Reply #652 on: April 14, 2014, 06:58:19 AM »
The fact that you keep fighting back at Phinehas is the reason he is being so "obnoxious". If everyone shuts up, considers what they and others have said, and replies civilly, we can get along fine.

P.S. Before you go on about me being an ass to DDR, let me just say that I have apologized many times (yes, Dan, I meant it when I said it) and changed my way of posting. Many of you don't realize it, but you are all bullying Phinehas.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #653 on: April 14, 2014, 07:31:49 AM »
Interesting and unexpected.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #654 on: April 14, 2014, 08:18:04 AM »
How are of all of us bullying phinehas? The only one making silly and insulting arguments is tuto.

Xriqxa

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Re: Politics
« Reply #655 on: April 14, 2014, 08:22:00 AM »
Interesting and unexpected.
not understood.

How are of all of us bullying phinehas? The only one making silly and insulting arguments is tuto.
Statement Ignored.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #656 on: April 14, 2014, 08:41:27 AM »
Please respond, I want to know how. Is it with overwhelming of information?

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #657 on: April 14, 2014, 09:03:50 AM »
Quote
not understood.

I guess I didn't expect anybody to see part of the problem as it is and say anything.  Your PM, as I understood it, would seem as you didn't mind negativity being directed at me.  So, I find it interesting that you would, at least on face value, stand up for me on any aspect.

Xriqxa

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Re: Politics
« Reply #658 on: April 14, 2014, 09:43:30 AM »
Your welcome, Phinehas, although your reply raises more questions. My mind is completely surreal in a social area (I don't mind being called Frooty in the Loops) so I said I was drawing needles on your doorknob. Darvince, you said that no one was on his side and everyone is against him, which is bullying. I shall inform The High Tyto and Her Pureness immediately.

phinehas

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Re: Politics
« Reply #659 on: April 14, 2014, 09:56:57 AM »
Ok, so forgive me if I am unable to comprehend the surreality of the world you and obviously others here live in.  I guess I can accept the flashes of coherence when and where it presents itself.