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Author Topic: Universe Sandbox should be Free  (Read 62524 times)

miros_0571

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Universe Sandbox should be Free
« on: January 03, 2012, 01:12:21 AM »
This thread is now officially closed.
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 01:28:11 PM by Dan Dixon »

ShoeUnited

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2 will be free-to-play
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 02:40:12 AM »
I uh.  Wow.  Um.  Ok, I felt like a jerk when I bought it on steam for $2.50.  I was willing to pay 10x for something called "Universe" and "Sandbox" in the title.  It's just that the steam sale and achievements that I was scraping coincided on the same day.

Now, I can understand that sometimes a person may not believe in a capitalist society.  They may be various anarchists or various forms of socialism.  I respect that.  We do not live in such a beast.  Certainly the author doesn't, otherwise -derpdeeday- it'd be free.

Let me be clear from the get-go, I am in no way looking to get banned.  The following contains objectionable material.  But I'd be remiss if I didn't point out to you: 

Code: [Select]
                                                                                                                                                                          FUCK YOU, BUDDY!  THIS GUY DID ALL OF THIS WORK; CODED ALL OF THIS GAME; FIGURED OUT ALL THE ALGORITHMIC FUNCTIONS TO GET THESE VARIOUS EQUATIONS TO WORK COHESIVELY IN HIS SPARE TIME; ESSENTIALLY CREATING THE VERY NEXT EDUTAINMENT I'VE LOVED SINCE CARMEN SAN DIEGO; AND YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO DEMAND THAT HE JUST HANDS OVER HIS FUCKING CODE TO YOU?  REALLY?  ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID ON PURPOSE OR ACCIDENT? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?!  WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING SPECIAL THAT YOU CAN SKIP OUT ON PAYING THIS GUY SO HE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD ELECTRIC HEAT?  ARE YOU TOO MUCH OF A SKIN FLINT YOU WON'T EVEN BUY HIM A FUCKING HAPPY MEAL?!  WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU EVER DONE OF SUCH SCALE THAT YOU WERE WILLING TO JUST THROW IT AWAY?  HELL YES I'D LIKE TO LIVE IN THAT SOCIETY!  BUT I DON'T.  THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS CHIP IN TOGETHER AND GET HIM A BEER.  IT AIN'T LIKE MY 2.50 WAS PAYING HIS RENT!  HOW ABOUT YOU GO CODE SOMETHING OF EQUAL OR GREATER VALUE NOT ONLY AS A GAME BUT EDUCATIONAL TOOLS FOR CHILDREN WHEN BUDGETS ARE GETTING CUT IN SCHOOLS LEFT AND RIGHT, THEN WE CAN DISCUSS HOW MUCH YOU'RE WILLING TO FUCKING PART WITH.  NO BETTER, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT.  GIVE ME YOUR NAME AND DATE OF BIRTH AND I'LL KEEP TRACK OF ALL YOUR ULTRA-ALTRUISM.  YOU'RE THE TYPE OF ASSHOLE WHO DEMANDS TO GET PAID TO JACK OFF IN YOUR OWN FUCKING ROOM.  GET THE FUCK OUT YOU SNOT NOSED BRAT AND NEVER SHOW YOURSELF AROUND HERE AGAIN.
In short, people like you are why it can't be free.  I'd be happy to put money on whatever comes next.  I only wish I had known about this program earlier. :)

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2 will be free-to-play
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 08:14:26 AM »
I uh.  Wow.  Um.  Ok, I felt like a jerk when I bought it on steam for $2.50.  I was willing to pay 10x for something called "Universe" and "Sandbox" in the title.  It's just that the steam sale and achievements that I was scraping coincided on the same day.

Now, I can understand that sometimes a person may not believe in a capitalist society.  They may be various anarchists or various forms of socialism.  I respect that.  We do not live in such a beast.  Certainly the author doesn't, otherwise -derpdeeday- it'd be free.

Let me be clear from the get-go, I am in no way looking to get banned.  The following contains objectionable material.  But I'd be remiss if I didn't point out to you:  

Code: [Select]
                                                                                                                                                                         FUCK YOU, BUDDY!  THIS GUY DID ALL OF THIS WORK; CODED ALL OF THIS GAME; FIGURED OUT ALL THE ALGORITHMIC FUNCTIONS TO GET THESE VARIOUS EQUATIONS TO WORK COHESIVELY IN HIS SPARE TIME; ESSENTIALLY CREATING THE VERY NEXT EDUTAINMENT I'VE LOVED SINCE CARMEN SAN DIEGO; AND YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO DEMAND THAT HE JUST HANDS OVER HIS FUCKING CODE TO YOU?  REALLY?  ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID ON PURPOSE OR ACCIDENT? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?!  WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING SPECIAL THAT YOU CAN SKIP OUT ON PAYING THIS GUY SO HE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD ELECTRIC HEAT?  ARE YOU TOO MUCH OF A SKIN FLINT YOU WON'T EVEN BUY HIM A FUCKING HAPPY MEAL?!  WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU EVER DONE OF SUCH SCALE THAT YOU WERE WILLING TO JUST THROW IT AWAY?  HELL YES I'D LIKE TO LIVE IN THAT SOCIETY!  BUT I DON'T.  THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS CHIP IN TOGETHER AND GET HIM A BEER.  IT AIN'T LIKE MY 2.50 WAS PAYING HIS RENT!  HOW ABOUT YOU GO CODE SOMETHING OF EQUAL OR GREATER VALUE NOT ONLY AS A GAME BUT EDUCATIONAL TOOLS FOR CHILDREN WHEN BUDGETS ARE GETTING CUT IN SCHOOLS LEFT AND RIGHT, THEN WE CAN DISCUSS HOW MUCH YOU'RE WILLING TO FUCKING PART WITH.  NO BETTER, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT.  GIVE ME YOUR NAME AND DATE OF BIRTH AND I'LL KEEP TRACK OF ALL YOUR ULTRA-ALTRUISM.  YOU'RE THE TYPE OF ASSHOLE WHO DEMANDS TO GET PAID TO JACK OFF IN YOUR OWN FUCKING ROOM.  GET THE FUCK OUT YOU SNOT NOSED BRAT AND NEVER SHOW YOURSELF AROUND HERE AGAIN.
In short, people like you are why it can't be free.  I'd be happy to put money on whatever comes next.  I only wish I had known about this program earlier. :)

10x? I payed 29.99, and I would have payed 49.99

Let me rage with you brethren!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 08:21:02 AM by FiahOwl »

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2 will be free-to-play
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 08:19:56 AM »

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2 will be free-to-play
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 08:22:39 AM »
I will not buy the full version and Universe Sandbox should be free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

Please change the title to "Universe Sandbox Should Be Free".

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 09:35:55 AM »
Hey, read this guys.
Heck no. I disagree. Read this:
http://en.wikiepedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play
Many people want to play for free, instead of buying the full version.

But he is working on universe sandbox FULL TIME.

In this capitalist society, WHERE will he get money to pay rent, buy cornflakes, pay for electricity, pay for these forums, and other things. DO YOU KNOW HOW FAR WE'VE COME BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN WORKING FULL TIME???!!

Sorry, just needed to vent that to your ignorance. If it is for free, people will download it for free. And not very many would make donations.
'
The problem is is that Dan is not rich. He needs the money.

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 09:38:48 AM »
Hey, read this guys.
Heck no. I disagree. Read this:
http://en.wikiepedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play
Many people want to play for free, instead of buying the full version.

And this you are begging for it to be free so you don't have to pay money, amrite?

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 10:06:37 AM »
Hey, read this guys.
Heck no. I disagree. Read this:
http://en.wikiepedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play
Many people want to play for free, instead of buying the full version.

And this you are begging for it to be free so you don't have to pay money, amrite?
Example, Team Fortress 2 is now free-to-play:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/440
Universe Sandbox 2 free full version from Russian site.
<Dan removed link>

And what does a different case and piracy have to do with this?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 01:41:27 PM by Dan Dixon »

smjjames

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 10:19:32 AM »
Dwarf Fortress is free and the creator lives okay on donations, but thats not the point. It's Dan's choice whether he wants to live on donations or have a steady amount of income through paid purchases.

dhm794

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 10:20:06 AM »
I don't know why anyone who enjoys this simulator would not want to contribute to its progress.  By paying a $10 (or even less) fee, you're contributing to future builds of the game.  It's not like the money you spend on it is tossed into a black hole.

atomic7732

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 10:42:10 AM »
And not very many would make donations.
Honestly, I think you'd be surprised how many would.

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 10:50:11 AM »
No reason to overreact to miros_0571's suggestion or use unnecessary expletives or ALL CAPS! :)
(and thanks for changing the subject)

Like he just pointed out, $20 USD can be extremely expensive in many place in the world.

I had someone contact me from Suriname who didn't have access to a credit card or any way to pay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname
Who's heard of Suriname?

---

Although:

Let me rage with you brethren!

That's pretty funny.

---

It's interesting... I've gone from name-your-own-price to $29.00 to $19.99 and on Steam to $9.99 and just recently it was on sale at 75% off and only cost $2.49 for a 28 hour period (now back at $9.99).

Since releasing on Steam, I'm doing much better financially, where I was slowly incuring debt before.

I'm using the revenue to hire developers (who are much better programmers than me) to help rewrite Universe Sandbox from the ground up. We're going to release a free update for everyone who's already bought with better graphics, collisions, and stability (and also a Mac version) sometime in 2012.

---

I'm open to all kinds of ideas. Making Universe Sandbox free-to-play is certainly one of them. Any thoughts on how I could monitzie a free-to-play gravity simulator?

---

miros_0571 - Check your forum messages.

smjjames

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 10:51:09 AM »
$19.99 = 159.92 ukrainian hryvnia - it is EXPENSIVE !!! :o
So, ask Dan and Universe Sandbox should be free.

Dan has absolutely no control over currency ratios, so that is not a valid reason to want Ubox free, and isn't Ukraine part of the Euro?

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2012, 10:56:54 AM »
And it looks like the value of the Ukrainian hryvnias dropped almost 50% at the start of 2009:

https://www.google.com/search?q=19.99+usd+to+ukrainian+hryvnia&pbx=1&oq=19.99+usd+to+ukrainian+hryvnia

List of average Ukrainian salaries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukrainian_oblasts_and_territories_by_salary

Average is 2233 UAH ($278 USD). If Universe Sandbox is 160 UAH then that's 1/14 of an average salary.

Perhaps now you can see why he's suggesting it be free-to-play?

---

@miros_0571

What is the price listed on Steam for you?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/72200/

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2012, 11:19:55 AM »
That's 78.somethingsomething of his currency.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 11:24:02 AM by Dan Dixon »

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2012, 11:22:48 AM »
Quote
I'm open to all kinds of ideas. Making Universe Sandbox free-to-play is certainly one of them. Any thoughts on how I could monitzie a free-to-play gravity simulator?

How about... No ability to save simulations?

smjjames

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2012, 11:45:55 AM »
Quote
I'm open to all kinds of ideas. Making Universe Sandbox free-to-play is certainly one of them. Any thoughts on how I could monitzie a free-to-play gravity simulator?

How about... No ability to save simulations?


Wouldn't that make it a demo? Plus with the absolute space points that spawn when going to and from chart mode and the rare semi-crash involving those (it behaves the same as the middle mouse button crash I was observing, but unlike that one, I have no idea how to reproduce it other than the fact that it has something to do with the absolute space points and possibly going to chart mode and back. Thankfully though, the crash is rare and 99% of the time, they resolve themselves or don't cause a crash), saving and reopening erases those since they'll mess with the velocity and acceleration overlays.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 12:30:13 PM by smjjames »

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 12:52:02 PM »
It's normally half price in Russia and historically Russian territories. Not sure the exact break down, but it was a price drop suggested by Valve many months ago that I agreed to.

Although I suppose 39 UAH is still pretty expensive, right?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 01:51:09 PM by Dan Dixon »

Darvince

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2012, 05:30:25 PM »
Isn't Ukraine near the middle in terms of world incomes? So the average amount of money there would be about 1/7 of what the average Western European/US/Canada citizen would have?

Naru523

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2012, 06:13:56 PM »
Dan has absolutely no control over currency ratios, so that is not a valid reason to want Ubox free, and isn't Ukraine part of the Euro?
I'm pretty late, but Ukraine isn't part of the Euro, mainly because Russia is pressuring on the EU.

Bla

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2012, 11:23:44 PM »
Ukraine isn't even a part of the EU.

As for making Universe Sandbox free... I'd love to see all software being made free. The problem is that in our society, people will need to earn money in order to live, and if they work on software full-time, it becomes pretty hard to live if it's free. My ideas:

* Make older versions available for free as new updates are developed (not everything for free except the newest version, but older versions which are significantly different from new ones, maybe).

* Donations. Too unreliable, I guess.

* Make it free, but only in areas of Earth where people generally can't afford buying it. (Suddenly! Everyone moved to Congo to buy Universe Sandbox)

* End capitalism (just a personal favorite)

entropydave

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2012, 07:36:10 AM »
erm... first post here before i return to lurking.... just want to say that i feel the price of 20 bucks or whatever is actually a gift for this software.
I so rarely buy stuff but this package is definitely worth it.  It's a really useful tool to play with and to educate with. Love it.
No, I'm not Dan's sock puppet...!

 ;D

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2012, 07:42:54 AM »

* End capitalism

I'll take this one.

Kepler-22b

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2012, 08:17:16 AM »
Oh, i feel me so bad. I have it stolen for 2.49€.  :'(

Bla

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2012, 08:58:45 AM »
erm... first post here before i return to lurking.... just want to say that i feel the price of 20 bucks or whatever is actually a gift for this software.
I so rarely buy stuff but this package is definitely worth it.  It's a really useful tool to play with and to educate with. Love it.
I agree, I've liked Universe Sandbox much more than some games which were much more expensive. I'm gladly paying for it.

It's just sad that prices hit people so differently. I don't think hard-working people in Ukraine or Kenya deserve it less than hard-working people in USA or Sweden. Not that people who can't work deserve it any less either.

About "Make it free, but only in areas of Earth where people generally can't afford buying it."
Maybe the version 1 payment method (choose your own price) for these areas instead?
It could start with a few countries and gradually expand depending on how much money is lost compared to how much is needed for Dan and the future plans for the program?

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2012, 10:12:47 AM »
I just wasn't sure if the Ukraine was part of the EU or not.

* Make older versions available for free as new updates are developed (not everything for free except the newest version, but older versions which are significantly different from new ones, maybe).

This sounds like a workable idea.

Quote
* Make it free, but only in areas of Earth where people generally can't afford buying it. (Suddenly! Everyone moved to Congo to buy Universe Sandbox)

Sounds good on paper maybe, but any ideas how that would actually work? He would have to somehow make sure everybody doesn't choose the option that is the cheapest for them, such as those in the US choosing, say.... Ukranian hryvnias over the US dollar.

Bla

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2012, 10:38:10 AM »
I assume it's possible to track where an IP is based. Proxy servers are a problem, though.
Another (or combined) option is to let people pick a country from a list first, and based on that, choose whether they should be able to choose their price (or what the minimum price should be).

Also, if you pay with a service like PayPal, Google Checkout, Steam etc., I'm almost certain they will have some sort of country assigned with your account. Would it be far-fetched to create payment accounts with false information to get Universe Sandbox for free? I don't know how easy it is to make those accounts.

I think both would work fine if it didn't become common knowledge that "look, you can just pick Rwanda and you'll get it for free!", or if it was easy to just pick another country to look at the different prices.

Arnstein

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2012, 10:46:46 AM »
In a society where one does not depend on money, it should be free. In the capitalist societies we live in today it should cost money.

tazz

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2012, 03:37:26 PM »
How about approaching humble bundle? http://www.humblebundle.com/

bterrill

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Re: Universe Sandbox Should Be Free
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2012, 12:58:21 AM »
Dan: Oh I know all about Surinam, but that's because I am a boa constrictor hobbyist , and suri produces the best bccs in the world! Actually, the whole Guyana shield.

On another note .. I picked US many months ago for $10 on sale. Being a space junkie, I always watched that tool you see on the science channel with michi and all them (though their sims are more like CG)  , but US lets me do my own tinkering.

I would actually pay more than I did , or even pay a yearly fee of updates if there could be more done. I want more star types, models, and abilities. When will the multi core not be buggy, and when can we finally have the roche limit to work ? (or work for us dummies). If it was free,  I think all this would take so much longer it'd probably not get done (and I wonder if it will now :P).

This is well worth the money , no matter what price you paid or will get it for on a sale. Only it can be free if Dan can still make money,  and I think there is way too much to do and work on then to build some store tosell models, or premadestuff like planets and crap.

Some things are great free to play, but not everything, and not this.

If anything, I wish more programmers can work on this to get it way better. This is one thing I'll be tinkering with for years (unlike most games which you beat and are done, or lose their appeal within a few months) .

 I want lots more features in here, I want to do so much more. I want Dan to be able to code this full time. Lets just pay the man for one of the coolest things you can get on Steam.