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Author Topic: Should we terraform Mars?  (Read 27250 times)

FiahOwl

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Should we terraform Mars?
« on: August 24, 2011, 08:54:35 AM »

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karakris

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2011, 10:27:56 AM »
Hmmm - sorry to be "advertising"#

In 2137 - WE have.

First - it needs at least one more half decent sized moon.

Two - it needs more Atmosphere, the right kind of Atmosphere.
CO2 from Moons of Outer Planets - and Solid Nitrogen from Moons of Outer Planets.

Also - lots of CO2 from Venus - it has more CO2 than ANY Planet can ever decently have -
in excess of 92 x the mass of Earth Atmosphere, and nearly all CO2.

An awful lot of water - Ice from Ice Asteroids, Ice from Comet Heads, Ice from Moons of Outer Planets.

CO2 convert to Oxygen - Cyanobacteria and Phytoplankton, in the water areas.

gcodehunter

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 06:57:08 PM »
it should most definitely be done. Our survival as a species, thinking in long terms, depends on our ability to find another home apart from earth. If we can leave earth and find a backup planet or planets, then we will be good for millions of more years.

FiahOwl

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2011, 01:14:34 PM »

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karakris

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2011, 02:47:51 PM »
I do not think the Colony on Ceres would have been AT ALL Pleased by that -

That is - Some 6 Million People, Factories, Thermadomes ( Agriculture ), Defensive Bases,
and Shipyards.
Similar things for lots of other Asteroids.

However - we did put steering Steam Propulsion Units ( using Fusion Reactors )
and Nuclear Reaction Units on several of the outer Ice Asteroids - and sent them to Mars.
We are no sending more to Venus, as part of the Terraforming Project for Venus.

Sitrep on Mars in late 2137 -
Atmosphere all done, Oceans 95% done - Land and Ocean Eco-Systems developing.
Population - 400 Million, and growing - Cities Built and growing.

Sitrep on Venus -
30% of excess CO2 shipped away, to form the dry ice Dwarf Planet Aphrodite,
in orbit between Asteroids and Jupiter - more being removed.  Sulphuric Acid fully neutralised.
New Diana Moon being built from Debris and Asteroid waste.
Ice Asteroids being impacted to impart spin and create Hydrosphere.
Cyanobacteria and Phytoplankton will convert CO2 to Oxygen - along with Nano-Bot Processing Units.
Liquid Nitrogen will be shipped in from Moons of Outer Planets.  

FiahOwl

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2011, 07:46:31 PM »

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vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 04:20:48 AM »
the red spiders are not pleased at all
!

vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 12:21:50 PM »
nuclear destruction, nuclear war, nuclear winter, total destruction of earth, biological warfare, disease that wipes out humans, terrorists use asteroid to explode the entire northern hemisphere, overpopulation, goverment downfall due to rebellions as people run out of food, food crisis, water crisis.

On mars all of these could happen but not nessecarily at the same time
as for something happening to the solar system, maybe astreoid coiilsion, epicallarge solar flare that wipes out asia, idk :P

oh, and the earthninjas  :o


vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 03:28:48 PM »
but
if they managed to wipe out all human life on earth
mars would be a backup
and if we didn't have it
extinction!
*first 3 seconds of beethoven's 5th symphony*

also, all those things, i listed, they could happen to earth and mars, but would be quite rare to happen to both simultaneously, which goes back to my first point above

after all, would it be harder to make ants extinct as they are now in their ant colonies, or if they were one huge group, and had a single colony the size of a mountain? We could just nuke the mountain, but as it is now, it would be impossible, short of destroying the earth, or freezing/melting/radioactive/nuke/ the whole planet.

with humans, if we spread out into multiple planets, star systems, even galaxies, it'd be nearly impossible to wipe us out as a race
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 03:35:25 PM by mudkipz »

vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 03:36:59 PM »
ehh, there are many factors that people don't control, including asteroids, suns exploding, aliens (maybe they wan't the earth for it's...water? idk lol)

also, about the field and players thing, i guess we'll just have to spread faster than we get wiped out :)
what a cheery thought

deoxy99

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 07:09:14 PM »
You know what Phinehas? You are just like my dad. Always arguing, and trying to be right. I'm sorry to say this, but you should leave. :-\

deoxy99

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2011, 12:38:19 PM »
I'm more of an adult than a child. While yes, I am 11 years old, I know more than most kids do. :-\

matty406

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2011, 03:45:31 PM »
Or you know, you could just disagree politely, Phinehas.

vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 05:46:49 PM »
I'm more of an adult than a child. While yes, I am 11 years old, I know more than most kids do. :-\

Proffering up a scenario of terrorists hijacking an asteroid to destroy North America shows otherwise.

hey wait that was me  :-[
i don't get any credit?

whats wrong with this anyway?
when we have the technology to terraform planets and pump trillions of tons of gas, deflecting or even controlling asteroids will be child's play!

"we're specks on a small blue marble that revolves around a big ball of fusion so we stop attacking each other and do good stuff!"
ok, i think thats whut dan said :)
i mite be a bit off  :P
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 06:01:05 PM by mudkipz »

vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 06:44:48 PM »
oh so we're talking about the present?

thats all different!

ok, then i would say its not feasible to terraform mars when we can't even get a single astronaut up there ;)

but terraforming mars today would require some of that future technology and current threat or whatever you just said

Dan Dixon

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 11:00:43 PM »
Listen child...

Stick to the retarded conversations on the Everything Else subforum.

As you're well aware, not everyone on this forum in an adult.

Just because you're older doesn't give you the right to be condescending or talk down to those who are younger.

Using the term "retarded" in an insulting way is very offensive to those with intellectual disabilities. Please don't use that word here.

Think next time or don't bother.

Is that really the best way to encourage discussion about an interesting topic like the hypothetical terraforming of Mars?

Dan Dixon

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 11:05:04 PM »
And to put the topic back on track...

nuclear destruction, nuclear war, nuclear winter, total destruction of earth, biological warfare, disease that wipes out humans, terrorists use asteroid to explode the entire northern hemisphere, overpopulation, goverment downfall due to rebellions as people run out of food, food crisis, water crisis.

The biggest impediment to terrafoming mars is the difficultly in getting to mars and the massive industry that would have to be built there to change its atmosphere. The cost alone would be prohibitive.

I suspect that if some of your reasons were a reason for terraforming Mars, they might also be the reason why we weren't able to terraform Mars in the first place.



vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2011, 03:13:11 AM »
well those events are kind of rare,
the point (maybe), would be to terraform mars and put humans on it before something bad happened i think?

karakris

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2011, 09:13:05 AM »
I except I will get TOTALLY SLAGGED for Expressing My Opinions.

But - here we go - obviously, the more PLanets we can colonise, the more we are actually gonna be "buiffered" from a lot of different kinds of threats.

Internal Problems / Threats -
Political Mistakes ( assuming the Planets run their own affairs, at least semi-independently ), Political Turmoil, Politically Motivated major Terrorist actions ( some of the ideologies of Territorist may be irrelevent on other Planets ).  Economic Collapse, Ecological Disasters ( of our own making ).  Nuclear Holocaust, and Nuclear Winter.
These are VERY UNLIKELY to happen on more than one Planet at the same time.

External Problems / Threats -
Massive Meteorite Collisions ( ELE ), Major Geological / Vulcanic Events.
If we are including Planets not in our Solar System - then massive Solar Storms, Nova or Supernova Events. Possibly Alien Attacks.

The further we spread Humanity - with sufficient sixed viable populations - then the better our chance of long-term Survival would be.

 Perhaps we whould start with Mars - and then later, if Technologies in the future permit, Terraforming Venus.
   

Bla

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2011, 10:04:26 AM »
I agree with the point by Mudkipz and Karakris that there are a lot of threats which could exterminate us if we have only one planet, but which we could survive if we spread out on more (depending on how developed the colonies would be, but ideally self-sustaining).

I definitely think we should colonize other planets, when we are capable of it, assuming we and our even bigger greed don't destroy ourselves or the entire Earth first. Compared to asteroids etc., I think we are by far the biggest threat to ourselves (thinking of how rare events big asteroid/comet impacts are).

And we can let all the human-made climate change denialists have a huge racing track for the most polluting cars EVER on Mars. ;D

I think, by the time we could terraform Ventus (what a typo, VENUS!), we would have found plenty of other Earth-like planets (in day-length, gravity, composition at least, not neccesarily life) which we could actually travel to.

There are two reasons I see for not colonizing planets, which we could colonize with our technology:
1: Because it wouldn't be worth it economically.
2: Because the natural state of the planet was worth preserving (or rather, letting continue without our intervention).

What do you think about 2? Would you miss a red, barren, craterish planet in the Solar System if we turned Mars into green plains with seas, forests, coulds and cities?

vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2011, 11:51:52 AM »
well getting the main superpowers to cooperate on terraforming ( i would imagine it would take at least a century, if not several) would be not easy. A was occuring between them could easily permenetly halt the terraforming

and i can't wait until we're at the point of colonizing other star systems :P, but that will have to wait a LOOONG time!

deoxy99

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2011, 12:10:26 PM »
well getting the main superpowers to cooperate on terraforming ( i would imagine it would take at least a century, if not several) would be not easy. A was occuring between them could easily permenetly halt the terraforming

and i can't wait until we're at the point of colonizing other star systems :P, but that will have to wait a LOOONG time!
It's called the UN.

vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2011, 12:15:29 PM »
O
i knew zat!
but its only been together 56 years or so, not even close to the several centuries it'd take to make mars habitable
and there's still been wars since its formed, even between us and ussr, vietnam war, etc
youd need almost global cooperration to do something as big as terraforming a planet?

still, it might be feasuhbile wiff somfing like the un!

deoxy99

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2011, 01:10:41 PM »
How about the Earth Union like Bla wants? ;D

An Earth Union is impossible. People will always hate something about the government, their country, and so on.

But please, don't start an argument that's off topic okay?

vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2011, 01:48:36 PM »
ok then, lets figure out what we need for terraformation!

several home bases should be built on mars to monitor the progress and act as a center of operations
as well as a spaceport and huge parking lot for any vehicles

we should figure out whether it is more economical to move the dry ice from the poles or to just directly melt it!
if moving, then we will need to build massive space trucks!
if we melt, maybe an orbital laser or we could cause an asteroid to strike it, instantly vaporizing the whole thing!

also, trillions of carbon sequestration units will be built on earth and thousands of tons of dry ice must be sent up to mars daily by a huge "cargocraft"

If this turns out to be not enough, we will take it from venus, and in the process maybe even terraform it
There must be bases on venus to freeze the carbon dioxide into dry ice efficiently! and orbital storages that lay in the shadow of venus (cooler there)
An orbital spaceport will tranport the dry ice to earth where it then goes to mars

Also, we shall siphon many cubic kilometers of nitrogen gas from jupiter to create a thick enough atmosphere, an orbital platform will brave the supersonic winds and send back transport drones with many tons of solid nitrogen.
We will pump a relatively small amount of artificially created ozone into the atmosphere to protect us from the suns harmfl rays also

For the water, we shall ship billions of tons solid oxygen and solid hydrogen
because the infrastructure is already in place, this will be made considerably easier
the problem is that the oxygen and hydrogen must come from somewhere (and not earth!)
another (more feasible) option is to fly out probes and scouts to find suitable comets that we will then direct
with ion engines (or maybe fusion/antimatter if a more direct course is needed) into mars to release massive amounts of water. This way will almost certainly quicker and cheaper.

If we use the first method, much of the oxygen will be used to add at least 20% of it into the atmosphere
the second method will require electrosis of water which will give up oxygen and hydrogen, which can be used as a fuel source!

up to 30 orbital stations around mars will now drop plants, trees and flowers alike, each in a fireproof shell. Apon impact the shell will open and the seed will be buried under an inch of provided soil and enough water to last several weeks  in the form of solid oxygen and hydrogen.
Genetically modified plants must be developed to be able to survive on mars and trillions of tons of fertilizers will be dumped in artificial jungles and forests.

When the atmosphere is breathable, humans will then proceed to build mass bases on mars. Quickly erectable bases that can be built in the thousands. A new ship will have to be contructed to transport humans there quickly and effecieently.
An infrastructure for a city will be built and the first colony should have up to 5000 settelers, mostly scientists.

Huge agricultural farms will be built, covering up to 5% of the planet. Most of this will go into large silo's, saved for future settlers.

once this is completed, huge electromagnets, tens of meters across will be used as localized solar partical deflection sheilds. Even, orbital platforms will require them incase of a flare.
By this stage, at least 2 centuries into the project, human technology will have advanced far enough to modify animals
i don't know exactly what the conditions will be like on this terraformed mars, but it'll probably be sub-par to earth.
The first genetically modified herbivores will have a hard time surviving on this semi-barren planet, the trees still occupy a measly 40% of the surface and the water can only be found near the single, large ocean created out of comet impacts.

Omnivores and carnivores would be gradually brought in slowly and near water/food sources. They must! be very carefully selected to hopefully avoid any diseases on mars.

A permenent spaceport will be set up on both mars and earth, travel will be common although expensive, and technology and wifi/ other modern things will be brought in.

wifi will be hard to implement with current technology, where there would be a 15 minute delay
however, in the future, a tachyon particle, which travels faster than the speed of light, will be able to access web pages in a blink through ftl communications

humans will now expand their settlement to a population of 100,000, and several more smaller ones will have probably started up. A rudimentary government will have started up, and within decades, they declare independence.

now someone do the calculations muahahaha :)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 02:18:24 PM by mudkipz »

karakris

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2011, 04:00:13 PM »
Well - we are getting there  but we started in 2134, and it is now 2137.

We brought in Megatons of Water Ice - from Comets, Ice Asteroids, and Moons of Outer Planets.
Liquid and Solid Nitrogen from Moons of Outer Planets - and Dry Ice from Venus.
The Cyanobacteria and Phytoplankton did a lot of the conversion from CO2 to O2, and got the Carbon Cycle eco-Systems started, and proceeding.  

Mars is nearly done - and Venus has been started on

Mars - nearly like this ( top picture ).

Venus will be like the bottom picture - in between 18 Months and 2 Years.


vh

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Re: Should we terraform Mars?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2011, 04:29:55 PM »
actually, according to mah kalkulations, by removing the excess carbon dioxide from earth and the oceans, and also running our insane pollution machines for another 2 centuries, we will have produced enough c02 to completely warm up mars, which btw needs more c02 because it is farther from the sun

also, keep in mind if we ever terraform mars, we will need an insanely strong electromagnet at its core it deflect the solar wind from stripping away the atmosphere