For Chinese people, universe sandbox should be free.

[Rainbow]

Some games and other games, as long as one to China will be to crack.Universe sandbox piracy (except that every time you open universe sandbox there will be a 1-hour trial) universe sandbox now in China is not how popular called cosmic sandbox in China, called cosmic sandbox.The near future, the universe sandbox 3 may be a cracked version.
有一些游戏和别的游戏，只要一到了中国就会被一些人给破解了。中国的宇宙沙箱有盗版的（只不过每次开启宇宙沙箱就会有1小时的试用），现在宇宙沙箱在中国还不是怎么流行，在中国不叫宇宙沙箱，叫宇宙沙盘。到了不久的未来，宇宙沙箱3有可能会出破解版的。
一些游戏和其他游戏，只要一到中国，将是宇宙沙箱盗版（除每次你打开宇宙的沙箱，将有1小时的庭审）宇宙沙箱现在在中国是如何流行的被称为宇宙的沙箱在中国，称为宇宙沙盘，不久的将来，的宇宙沙箱3可能是破解版。

[Rainbow]

And Gmod, Gmod one called Half-Life 2 physics sandbox ...
就和Gmod一样，Gmod只要一到中国就叫半条命2物理沙盘...

[Rainbow]

In China, no one is willing to buy legal copies, even Microsoft products that flood China is pirated. The ... Chinese people because China generally some genuine expensive operating system and software are all pirated, there are few genuine things. General Windows and other software in China Windows 7 is very expensive, a crack can be downloaded from the internet ...
在中国，没人愿意买正版，就连微软的产品也是如此，中国现在盗版已经泛滥。因为中国一般一些正版很贵......中国人的操作系统和一些软件全是盗版的，很少有正版的东西。在中国Windows 7很贵，一般Windows和其他软件只要一破解就能在网上下载......
在中国，没有一个人愿意买正版，甚至是微软的产品，洪水，中国是盗版的。该...中国人，因为中国一般是一些真正的昂贵的操作系统和软件都是盗版的，有一些真正的东西。通用在中国Windows 7的Windows和其他软件是非常昂贵的，有裂纹，可以从互联网上下载...

[FiahOwl]

Isn't universe sandbox free for the Chinese already?uhh... You know... Illegally?

[blotz]

i think he's saying it should be free because they can crack it, but idk

[Tisoon]

Many patches for enhancements and bugs corrections is a good idea "to avoid" crack, because it needs a new crack for each version of the game.

[FiahOwl]

nice try on getting an early beta

[Darvince]

this isn't a try on getting an early beta, it's saying that in china, everything is pirated because nobody is willing to pay money to get something that isn't even physical, basically.

[Unreal2004]

The Chinese are VERY good at ripping off other people, companies and countries, look at the cars they blatantly copy right down to the styling, only difference is the rebadge and engines.  Top Gear did a segment where they tried to find differences between the Chinese fakes and the real cars, couldnt see it save for the stupid names.  Case in point:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exISm5-aefQ  they are either so bad at producing something of their own or just want to cut to the chase and skip all the R&D work that they do this.  China has no respect for anyone's intellectual property but no one dares speak up against them since we were all stupid the last 30-40 years and let them build everything.

Rant over, no I am not racist, just want to show people what they dont see.  IMO we should not ship anything to China until they respect international laws on intellectual and real properties, until then they will just suck things dry and not be a center of innovation but a center of copies and fakes.

[Dan Dixon]

@Rainbow
I'm sympathetic to those that are unable to afford or purchase Universe Sandbox for whatever reason.

At the high end, a worker in Beijing may only make $9000 USD per year. Elsewhere in the country it may only be half that. While Universe Sandbox on Steam is only $10, that's a lot when your family may be living on $10,000.

It's certainly reasonable to request that it be free, but this is not something I'm able to offer.

Although schools can get it for free via: http://www.teachwithportals.com/
I'm not sure if this would work in China.

And that said... if someone pirates it that could not purchase it, well, that's not a lost sale.


@Unreal2004
Why are you so angry at the Chinese people? You seem to be mixing your anger at unfettered capitalism and government policies with the people that happened to be born in China.

China was not the cause of the economic collapse in 2008, nor is it the cause of the massive income inequality in the United States. Either way... the Chinese people are not the problem.

[phinehas]

<censored>

[Daryl95]

First. Chinese capitalism is not "unfettered" and if it were, they wouldn't be saying that it's dying. The only reason our corporations would go over there is because the labor is cheaper and the US government taxes the crap out of them.

Second. China didn't cause the economic collapse. The US did it with gross overspending and borrowing.

Third. Nobody is born with abilities; not the doctor, not the guy who runs a software company (I'm sure Dan Dixon would agree.), not the lawyer, nor the investor. They all studied hard, worked hard, and grew into their current positions. The garbage man, janitor, fruit picker, and assembly line man should be happy that these people exist. They should be happy that the pay of these jobs of 'ability' is higher because otherwise, everyone will be garbage men, janitors, fruit pickers, and assembly line men and nobody will make Universe Sandbox, cure illnesses, or run/interpret the government (well really, lawyers are a little overrated), or invest money in new ideas.

Fourth, I agree that all Americans are the 1% of the world. Our poor are the richest on the planet. Do I think we're evil? No. Do I think that this is because we're doing something right; like maybe the 'most' unfettered capitalism on the planet? Yes. Do I think we should stop giving free stuff like Obamaphones to the poor? Yes. As a matter of fact, as America has grown it has fueled the growth of other nations and I hope that free trade continues, not free stuff for third world nations, but free trade so that other nations can do better with us.

Also, if you were saying something bad about giving the chinese these low paying jobs, remember that they didn't have jobs near as good before that, otherwise they wouldn't take so little money; and remember that American dollars tend to be worth a lot more in other nations. That's why they come here to work and then go home and draw off of their government's entitlement programs.

Fifth, what you said about equity vs. equality isn't a bad rule of thumb.

Sixth, are you a Right or Left, because I can't tell? Perhaps misunderstood your stand on these issues, but I have likely clarified it if this is the case.

[Darvince]

Both of you are on the right of the spectrum. I have nothing more to say.

[smjjames]

To reply to the top post, Universe Sandbox should be free for EVERYBODY.

Well, they did go through the industrial revolution and economic growth in a generation or two that in the 'west' took place over two centuries.

Regulation wise and with the labor laws, China is about where the US was during the late 19th century.

Honestly though, I have nothing against the Chinese people, it's their government that I have a problem with. For the counterfeiting, I don't know of any historical examples of product counterfeiting being that rampant, but it's definetly true, Apple had to trademark their stores because of lookalike stores that cropped up.

Seriously, I doubt the Chinese people have a lack of creativity, heck, look at all the inventions in the past that came out of china. Unreal2004 has a point with the counterfeiting since the counterfeit products in the military actually creates a national security problem.

As much frustration as there is here in the US at outsourcing to china and elsewhere, the US government is also to blame for the policies.

Still, artificially lowering the value of the Chinese currency? That's just not being fair.

Typing from an iPhone, so the thoughts are kind of jumbled.

[smjjames]

And Gmod, Gmod one called Half-Life 2 physics sandbox ...
就和Gmod一样，Gmod只要一到中国就叫半条命2物理沙盘...

I thought Gmod was a Team Fortress 2 sandbox? I guess it could be used for Half-Life 2. Dan can't do anything about the Gmod as its made by someone else.

[blotz]

"To reply to the top post, Universe Sandbox should be free for EVERYBODY."

Then how would Dan pay his [co-]workers?

[unl0cker]

I wasn't about to say nothing, but I simply can't resist political subjects.  

It seams really too good to be true, but boils down to "follow the money" or it's ancient form "cui bono".

I believe all the peoples of this planet, which are basically the same if they are nourished in a equal manner, have the same capabilities of creation or destruction. It's nonsense to try to divide what is fundamentally the same.

The counterfeiting "problem" is there not by chance, as absolutely nothing of importance in the last centuries is left to chance, is by design. Who's design and for what purpose (everything has a purpose, seems to me is always a "win win" scenario) is what one keep asking himself since the beginning. Cui bono?!

There is no reason why we should discuss lower levels of structures when they are merely a vague opaque smoke screen, we should talk about the the fire that burns deep inside and creates the smoke.

We tend to "use" countries to express our frustrations on major designs, and bash countries and the people living in it for it. There are we and them. Ask yourself if you are capable of influencing the forces that govern nations. If you in fact are, which is very very unlikely, you are part of them group. If not, you are in the us group. Is THAT simple.

Is very easy to bash a nation's people when they have no control over it, and when you are in the comfort of your home, sitting on your leather reclinable chair, watching the super ball and sporadically flipping over to the "news" channel to watch your 15 daily minutes of "quality news".

If you slept over for some reason and woke up a slave in your own country, enslaved by people you vote for, or by any other circumstance, when you face that cold prison for no justifiable reason, or look down into the shiny silvery dot that lays in the end of that big barrel, well, I guess you tend to go with the flow, no matter where hell the wind might take you, just to avoid such circumstances.

Peoples of the Occidental financed and backed Socialist China, like the Communist Russia,  are people that deserve at least pity from us, leather chair owners. We should pity them! If not for the right moral and compassionate reasons, at very least for something more selfish and yet very important like self preservation, as peoples of the now Socialist Republic of China once had leather chairs as well, and obviously there is a locally created but world-wide will to simply end the leather chair business... I just ask myself cui bono?!

In the end, there are us, and them, the control, the socialist financiers, the banksters and the snakes and money lenders, the same people that accordingly to Matthew, John, Luke AND Mark were capable of turning the most peaceful person to walk this earth into a raged mad man.

Bit radical, but...

Just to finish the tough. I don't believe that there is any single one in China, Pakistan, India dictating the way I should live my life here in Brazil. Can't say the same about places like France, England or Netherlands.

[Darvince]

I have only two things to say: No nation is socialist any more, except for maybe Cuba. Also, the higher up people in the banking industry are very, very rarely socialist or even leftist.

[unl0cker]

Agreed in part. Left and right is a paradigm for us as forms of regime also are for us, not them. They think more like in the "us-them" parameters.

I disagree when you say higher and higher you go less and less "leftist" one will be. There is nothing social about socialism, is a mere plutocracy with a badly done make-up.

What was the most prominent U.S. family of the 20th century? I'd say it was the Rockefellers. Hard to find someone more socialist or fundamentally leftist than that family?

Leftist regimes are a front for plutocracy, and higher and higher you go more and more people want exactly that.

[Daryl95]

First, in one of the posts smjjames said Universe Sandbox should be free for everyone. I say no. The price is and should be whatever the creators set it at, which will reflect operating expenses and then they have to make a profit. No this is not evil. If nobody made a profit their would never be any incentive to make anything.

Second, people are not the same no matter how similarly nourished. They may end up in similar classes, but a whole variety of things will make them different because people are genetically and physiologically different. Yes. This means that some people are smarter and will be able to create some things that others can't. Some people have access to different resources that others don't. In some cases ideological systems will get in the way, which has nothing to do with nourishment.

Third, to sum up a lot of what you said about 'them' and 'us'.  People are responsible for what their government is doing. As an American, I and my fellow countrymen are responsible for our national debt. We are responsible for the war on drugs, which suddenly gave drug cartels reason to shoot up our border, killing Mexicans and Americans. Two centuries and fifty years ago, our forefathers fought the American Revolution so that they would no longer be a part of their corrupt government. There are a few hundred people in Washington and millions of Americans. If we cannot control them, it is our fault just as much as every other nation on this planet, no matter how oppressive.

Fourth, I do not bash their people. I do pity the man who lives under a tyrannical regime. But the fact that he is in the wrong place and knows it, makes it his responsibility to find a nation that is doing better.

Fifth, if you become enslaved by the people you vote for, then that's your fault.

Sixth, in the end there are the haves and the haven'ts. The people that haven't feel that someone owes them a free copy of Universe Sandbox, or anything like money, food, a car, a cellphone, etc. The people that have become a minority when the political power becomes infested with people attempting to cater to the haven'ts. Then the people that have become slaves and will inevitably become haven'ts.

Seventh, you are quoting a book written 2000 years ago by Arabs who knew less about the universe than we do. They even thought the world was flat. As far as 'socialist' financiers, I guess that's a person that equally invests in everybodys' business no matter how likely to fail? But bankers and money lenders don't turn people into mad men. These 'mad men' chose to go into debt. If they can't pay it off, that's their fault. They knew the payment plan. If they didn't, they shouldn't have gotten a loan. This kind of shows the ridiculousness of people who relate Christianity and Capitalism.

Eighth, bit radical but...
...as for Asian nations not telling us what to do, I heard of guys getting taken out who the Chinese didn't like... in America. No, I don't believe they influence our laws, but that's a good reason to get away from the socialists, fascists, and communists and live somewhere else, because they almost have to start World War III get you (unless you mess with them, relating to the first thing I said).

Just food for thought.

[unl0cker]

Hey Daryl sup mate?! I got the impression you think I was replying to you. I was not, did not even read the top posts. I was replying to smjjames.

Anyway, so many numbers. I agree with you, I was not defending anyone that believes this should be free or cheaper. In fact the price of it is a kinda of a joke to me. Everything is relative, and 300 bucks for a Lexus is kind of a mega bargain, I'd take like 20 or 30 if someone offered me that. Now 300 for this software is kinda little bang for the buck, and I wouldn't buy a single copy. Considering the current and the proposed prices, both are (to me) a ridiculous rate of bang-buck. It's a not brainer.

I disagree when you say we are not the same, we are in the fundamental sapiens details that matter the same. Some peoples of a certain region might overcame specific physical challenges better than others, but that's not  the way is imho wrongly proposed over and over again.  Everything has to do with nourishment! Who you are today and what are you capable physically and mentally is VASTLY dictated by how you grew up. Cultural capping is something one can overcome with will, physical capping is a totally different thing. This seems logical to me.

As an American like yourself (not natural born, but nevertheless one), I have the right AND the duty to say that I HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS DEBT you mentioned, responsibility should go to the minion governors and their masters, not us!

I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE for the drug trade. The government (as the people that control's it) is, "they" make the profit, their responsibility!!! The forefathers fought for liberty, against oppression, namely financial. Who is responsible for turning China, a great millennial nation into a land of junkies? The chinese? No! Those are the victims, the guilt one was England and it's draconian policies for subjugation and profiteering!

I'm a bit more, say realistic, about these issues. I'm gonna tell you a little story about what happened to me in the very first week I came back to Brazil. This day I was working late, till midnight, and on my way back I was stopped by a patrol. I was pulled out of my car at gun point they made me lay down on my belly, they checked me for drugs and God knows what else. When they noticed I was clean (and had no money),  I tried to voice my frustration for that kind of treatment without cause, at this point the thug/cop pointed gun at me and told me if I go on and place a complain he would be "visiting me" for a cup of tea. So you see, when shit goes really really bad, there is only one solution, that is the union of superficially different but fundamentally the same people.

Watch out for your fifth. Both reply and amendment! The time to say STOP and ACT is now, because in a few decades, as   the think-tank Orwell said once "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act".

About The Book, well personally I am a logical being. If it doesn't make logic, even being a twisted one, to me is not true. So religion makes to me, a different kind of sense that it does for most. But I don't think the validity of the point is destroyed by the fact that the bible was written 2k years ago. We child of the information today are very arrogant in this sense, we think we are the pinnacle of everything. To me this could not be far from the truth. Who wrote it and when is irrelevant. Imagine Jesus being a cartoon character, and the bible being the cartoon. In all the hundreds of episodes, the Jesus character never EVER even when beaten to death he raise his hand against another character, but ONLY to go against the money changers of that time, that use to overcharge the only "good" coin to pay the debt to God in the form of special sacrifices. There is great value in this particular episode. One must digest it. So even if Jesus was not real, but a fictional character of the imagination of a religious faction, the story hold it's value. I do believe much has been lost over the centuries, including science, but most I think was knowledge over life itself. I have more faith in the ancients. Take giza for instance. Build 4k years ago, to levels of precision that would be impossible for us 100 years ago, probably almost impossible for us today.

You are still thinking in the Nation box. I personally think that's wrong. Power and it's aggregation called money have none. When I say England, I;m not saying the prime minister of England, but the men that financed his financier. And financed the France prime minister, the same people that financed Obama, the same people that financed Hillary, the same people that finance John Kerry, the same financed the Bushes, and Reagan, and Carter, and Johnson, and Mao, and Lenin, and Hitler, and the same people that finance industries all around the globe in tens of nations in one side, and in the other try to implement agenda 21, the same people that "sponsored" the league of nations and the united nations, the same, the same. It's ALWAYS the same people.

For this reason, I love all peoples! Each and every major nation in this planet is under influence. We either unite and win our freedom the "easy" way, or fall in to the dark ways of the projected future.

I'm so dramatic sometimes.

[unl0cker]

And to add preciseness to my record, I believe Universe Sandbox is worth around $70.00. I'd pay $70.00 for it, making the proposed and current prices a bargain to me!

Hell, a bigmac is a bigmac anywhere, prices are the same globe-wise. So we all should save our health of 3 or 4 bigmacs and buy some brain stimulating software instead!

[phinehas]

<censored>

[smjjames]

I was just saying that if it were free for the Chinese, it should be free for everybody and of course everybody would like it to be free. Unfortunately, economics and the fact that he now has a team which needs to get paid, means that it will cost something.

Regarding the whole discussion, I hope our Chinese friends don't get too confused with a google translate of the thread, unless they're using a different one.

[FiahOwl]

I'm pretty sure the Chinese all dropped interest in this conversation and just downloaded a pirated copy.

[phinehas]

<censored>

[Hellpotatoe]

Hell, a bigmac is a bigmac anywhere, prices are the same globe-wise. So we all should save our health of 3 or 4 bigmacs and buy some brain stimulating software instead!

Me?
I never have eaten a bigmac, so this dont help me.
I've get in mac(or mc?)donalds one time, hm... seven years old... yeah...
The cousin of my mother buyed a "MacLancheFeliz" to me (idk how its the name in english). It was small and with a very high price, at least for a burguer.

[unl0cker]

Mc Lanche Feliz is called Kid's Meals, or Happy Meal, or Eat and Die!

Sorry for the long off-topic posts. Fortunately I think the same as Dan in this subject. I see no or little harm in "piracy" where buying power is absent. I give away freebies myself, and simply makes me happy!

[phinehas]

<censored>

[Arnstein]

The Chinese are VERY good at ripping off other people, companies and countries, look at the cars they blatantly copy right down to the styling, only difference is the rebadge and engines.  Top Gear did a segment where they tried to find differences between the Chinese fakes and the real cars, couldnt see it save for the stupid names.  Case in point:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exISm5-aefQ  they are either so bad at producing something of their own or just want to cut to the chase and skip all the R&D work that they do this.  China has no respect for anyone's intellectual property but no one dares speak up against them since we were all stupid the last 30-40 years and let them build everything.

Rant over, no I am not racist, just want to show people what they dont see.  IMO we should not ship anything to China until they respect international laws on intellectual and real properties, until then they will just suck things dry and not be a center of innovation but a center of copies and fakes.

Please don't take your facts from Top Gear. While that might be a good show for entertainment(not in my opinion, but I understand that other people think so), they are not neutral when trying to show 'facts'. As for copyright and patents, I kind of think it's okay that they break every rule in the book, instead of ending up like in the west, with people fighting over patents and stopping evolution in technology for selfish behaviour.