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Author Topic: NationStates  (Read 511266 times)

Darvince

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1110 on: May 24, 2013, 10:33:38 AM »
in hungarian it is boo-duh-pesht

atomic7732

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1111 on: May 24, 2013, 11:23:19 AM »

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1112 on: June 06, 2013, 10:43:46 PM »
data on how your stats affect issues

incomplete

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1113 on: June 06, 2013, 10:55:02 PM »
Y axis is a multiplier to issue strength and x axis is what? Economy?

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1114 on: June 06, 2013, 11:05:17 PM »
for example, when you're at 99 economy, it's hard to advance to 100, and thats what the graph represents. however when you're at 50 economy it's easy to go up or down. which is why x = 50 is higher than x = 90 (or it should be)

i did this by making a bunch of bot nations and recording all their choices and results and then applying regression to figure this out. obviously this graph has a lot of noise and it's badly calculated. i did this with a built in least squares method for linear regression on python which didn't work too well (i had values from 0 to 10^10^15)  because the system is undetermined or something . I'm trying qr decomposition to solve the system better but i haven't figured it out yet

so yeah hopefully i can show a prettier graph soon

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1115 on: June 08, 2013, 07:48:04 PM »

graph of the effects of issues
x-axis: starting value
y-axis: value of change from decision

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1116 on: June 09, 2013, 12:38:23 AM »
So one issue can get your economy from 0 to 75? Kol

Or from pretty much 80 to 0.

Bubble sizes show the number of times the change has happened I assume.

Maybe nation age/population should be taken into account? I have a suspicion that it affects issue strength as well (decreasing over time), but I'm not sure.

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1117 on: June 09, 2013, 05:10:57 AM »
yes and good idea

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1118 on: June 11, 2013, 04:26:30 PM »
Kolyes, finally back to grade A communism in Blaist Blaland. The lemonade stands have been defeated.

Meanwhile, 100 economy is still a thing and so is 196 income equality. :P

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1119 on: June 15, 2013, 05:56:47 PM »
.

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1120 on: June 18, 2013, 08:52:24 AM »
"Matagorda is ranked 1st in The United States of America and 1st in the world for Most Authoritarian, with 6,418,452,905.433 Stalins."

Holykol, there must be more Stalins in their government office than there are people living in the entire rest of the country!

Some interesting calculations on the Stalin density of the top 5 most authoritarian nations:

1: 6,418,452,905.433 Stalins (population: 9,000,000). Stalin density = 713 Stalins pr. person!*
2: 14,464,821.724 Stalins (population: 444,000,000). Stalin density = 3.26% of people are clones of Stalin
3: 14,464,821.724 Stalins (population: 460,000,000). Stalin density = 3.14% of people are clones of Stalin
4: 14.551 Stalins (population: 4,480,000,000). Stalin density = 0.000000325% of people are clones of Stalin
5: 14.551 Stalins (population: 6,170,000,000). Stalin density = 0.000000236% of people are clones of Stalin

* In 1, it is for obvious reasons assumed that the Stalins do not contribute to the population count, unlike the situation in the other countries.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 09:03:42 AM by Bla »

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1121 on: June 18, 2013, 09:03:16 AM »
kol yeah i'm pretty sure it's a glitch

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=247044

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1122 on: August 16, 2013, 09:41:18 AM »
So close!

Darvince

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1123 on: August 16, 2013, 11:06:47 AM »
meanwhile in blaland, scientists are rushing to discover the number 200

matty406

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1124 on: August 16, 2013, 11:13:15 AM »
"We know there has to be a number over 199. Some people say it might be '200', but it's a wild guess at most"

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1125 on: August 16, 2013, 01:12:45 PM »
Kol, I would have done the same.

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1126 on: August 28, 2013, 12:38:01 PM »
Sometime when I get time, I should maybe update the Blaist NS GDP calc to use these four factors:

1: Economy (obviously)
2: Civil rights (Idk how this should affect the economy yet, ideas are welcome)
3: Political freedom (same as 2)
4: Time (my idea is to use the date as a purely random factor in the calculation)

The reason for adding 2 and 3 are to make the economy look more varied on the graph rather than simply a steady, infinite growth if you simply reach 100. That makes graphs look boring. 2 and 3 should have a small effect compared to 1 for obvious reasons.
My idea would be that the optimal values would be in the middle of the "world benchmark" area. Maybe there should be a positive spike at very low values as well?

4 could be used to "simulate" market cycles, periods of fast growth and slow/negative growth in all economies. Socialist nations could have the option to turn this off to have a more stable growth. It could also be used to create random noise in the values, by using maybe sin(time) or cos(time) in a way that would create totally random numbers to modify the growth by say +/- 5% every day.

As far as I know, 1, 2 and 3 are the only factors that NS keeps storing after they change. I don't want to include other factors because it would make it too much of a mess to update. If NS keeps track of any other factors, I'd like to know.

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1127 on: August 28, 2013, 07:36:24 PM »
ns stores past values for civil pol and economy, but only the last numbers are used in each days calculation (according to some admin). there are some hidden flags and stuff but afaik none of the stats are stored for multiple days.

also you could use the size of the public sector to determine how large if a factor the sin thing is.

capitalist countries get a tan multiplier instead :)

FiahOwl

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1128 on: August 28, 2013, 08:11:11 PM »

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:36:07 AM by FiahOwl »

tuto99

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1129 on: August 29, 2013, 12:50:57 PM »
Aeridanish Oatmeal Embargo Act of 614

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1130 on: September 01, 2013, 01:04:14 PM »
SadKol Pain Theory graph. SadKol will be the official ideology of The Bloodbow Kollektive. Less productive, but more sadist, than Gaytheism. >:D


vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1131 on: September 01, 2013, 09:11:05 PM »
interesting. is the scale linear? if it is then i assume the pain curves are exponential?

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1132 on: September 01, 2013, 09:16:58 PM »
interesting. is the scale linear? if it is then i assume the pain curves are exponential?
The scales are linear yes. I'm not sure exactly how pain works but this would be my best guess.

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1133 on: September 02, 2013, 05:06:41 AM »
After much contemplation, the kolkolkol pain theory has been developed

the kolkolkol pain theory uses pain functions to maximize pain.

the pain equations are
paintorture = T*[d^xt+fc^xl]+t
painlabor = L*[c^xl+gd^xt]+l

where t,l are the asymptotic minimum pains caused by torture and labor, T and L is the difference between the minimum and maximum pain or labor and d and c are the decay rates of torture pain and labor pain respectively. xl and xt are the years that have been already spent in labor or turture, f and g are constants.

note that tolerance of labor and torture is additive, this is demonstrated when the initial red rainbow torture is less painful than bloodbow torture, (if it was multiplicative, the pain should be the same, but it isn't.)

Pain seldom happens simultaneously. Instead, by observing bloodbow charts, we can see that a life can be split into phases, each being a type torture or labor. The equations for the total pain given by a phase is described below.

phasepaintorture =  ∫ {T*[d^(xt+xp)+fc^xl]+t} dxp from xp = [0,xc]
phasepainlabor = ∫ {L*[c^(xl+xp)+gd^xt]+l} dxp from xp = [0,xc]

xc is the length of the current phase.

Simplifying, we get:

phasepaintorture = i can't integrate this
phasepainlabor = i can't integrate this


bloodbow data shows the following estimates for each variable, making the assumptions that bloodbow torture starts at a pain rating of about one, and the average anti-gay survives 20 years after arrest:

t = ~0.6
l = ~0.1
T = ~0.5
L = ~0.4
c = ~0.79
d = ~0.891
g = ~0.12
f = ~0.1

1due to seemingly different torture methods between bloodbow and red rainbow, torture pain decay was different between the countries, and this estimation is rather rough as a result

2 there is no data for this, but 0.1 was picked based off of the value of related constant f.

since xl and xt are time already spent in labor/torture, and not total time in labor/torture, it would not be correct to plug the equation in to a plotter and read off values. I could have multiple cycles of torture and labor. How torture and labor should be arranged to maximize pain must be reasoned out.

Since torture affects (pain from) labor and labor affects (pain from) torture, it is useful to have a metric describing how much loss in pain happens as a result of this tolerance

losst = T{1-[d^xt+fc^xl]}
lossl = L{1-[c^xl+gd^xt]}

Obviously, we want to minimize loss of pain for both torture and labor. But what counts as total pain? is it:
loss = losst + lossl
because there is equal potential for both torture pain and labor pain, so they should be added
or is it
loss = min(losst,lossl)
because only torture and labor can happen next, not both, so minimizing the loss of either torture and labor is better than counting both?

kolkolkol theorists are still debating this point, and since they have made no decision, we will just plug both equations for loss in and see which works better.

While a large pain value for each phase is desirable, a large loss value makes the phase undesirable. Thus, an ideal phase has a large pain value and a small loss value.

Although many desirability functions can be used to evaluate phases, here are a few currently in use

absoluteDesirability(phase) = phasepain - phaseloss
efficiencyDesirability(phase) = phasepain / phaseloss
iamhighDesirability(phase) = ζ(phasepain + phaselossi)

Currently, order to realize maximum pain, an algorithm may generate several random phases, narrow in on the most desirable one, and generate similar phases. Eventually, the ideal phase may be discovered, executed, and the loop starts over. Although the algorithm is functional, it seems inefficient, sloppy, and the wrong way to do it.

Work has been done on the possibility of directly computing the most efficient phase, but is not complete, and would require more funding.






deoxy99

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1134 on: September 02, 2013, 05:15:48 AM »
Mudkipz being or at least sounding logical? I think this is a first.

FiahOwl

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1135 on: September 02, 2013, 08:02:31 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:35:21 AM by FiahOwl »

Bla

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1136 on: September 02, 2013, 09:59:03 AM »
Kol vh, did you actually research things or just base all that on the chart I drew from my own imagination? :P

Anyway, I did not imagine there to be different pain tolerances for torture and work, they could just be combined into a pain tolerance I imagine you build up over an extremely painful life. But it may also work completely opposite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_tolerance
Some sources here I haven't read are claimed to suggest that the more pain you experience, the more sensitive you become to pain in the future, in a process similar to learning. If that works in the most extreme cases with years of torture that would ruin the current SadKol pain "theory", even though SadKol would still doubtlessly cause more pain than Gaytheism.

vh

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1137 on: September 02, 2013, 10:30:14 AM »
uhhh i made it up based on your chart :P

tuto99

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1138 on: September 02, 2013, 10:50:57 AM »
That looks... horrible.

Darvince

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Re: NationStates
« Reply #1139 on: September 02, 2013, 02:53:41 PM »
fuck you deoxy