Simulating the Big Bang

[Stevodoran]

Hi all,

Is their any way to simulate big bang in Universe Sandbox 2? I haven't been able to find anything so i was wondering if any of you's know how to.

Thanks Stevoodran

[Darvince]

Not unless Dan implements a special thang for it.

[Stevodoran]

Not unless Dan implements a special thang for it.

Shame, so it's not done yet?

[Darvince]

Unless you make an absolutely massive object, like say, 10^46 M kg, and then make it explode into about 7,000,000 objects.

[egghead]

Unless you make an absolutely massive object, like say, 10^46 M kg, and then make it explode into about 7,000,000 objects.

Too bad there wasn't any matter involved in the big bang. Matter appeared long after it. For such a simulation you would need radiation and dark matter.

[hgfggg]

The big bang emitted no light, so the actual sim would be a blank sim with the background turned off.

[Ramierez]

The Big Bang is simulated everytime you start up the game.  Initially someone set the time step waaaaay too high, but thankfully for us they've since figured out how to control that a bit better.

For now we all await the rapture of the Log Off or Shutdown.

[Stevodoran]

Unless you make an absolutely massive object, like say, 10^46 M kg, and then make it explode into about 7,000,000 objects.

I don't mind 

[ChemicalBR0]

how can you simulate something you really know nothing about 
it's all speculation. scientists just won't admit it.

without hard proof there is no science. scientists seem to forget that when it comes to things like the big bang, dark matter, dark energy.
they say there should be more matter in the universe but they can't detect it so they say it's dark matter.

how the hell do they know? have they seen the whole universe?

what is so hard for them just to say " y'know actually we don't have a bloody clue"

[atomic7732]

Scientists will admit it. You just need a Cosmology to English translation dictionary.

Read the Astronomy Magazine for June 2011, and you'll know.

[ChemicalBR0]

hundreds of years ago it was accepted knowledge that the earth was flat. now we know otherwise and look back at those people and laugh.

in another hundred years they will probably look back at us and say "can you believe those idiots thought there was a big bang" 

[spaceless]

Maybe true, but I think our observation and calculation skills nowadays are a little more advanced than hundreds of years ago ^^

[ChemicalBR0]

not so much in mathematics and calculation. good maths has been around for thousands of years.
the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids by scetching the plans on a ciggy packet, something like that needed good planning and maths. (and don't tell me aliens built them

[spaceless]

I have an alien as pet. He always talks about how cool it was to show those monkeys how to build pointy buildings and I believe him with his big eyes looking at me....

[bojo]

Unless you make an absolutely massive object, like say, 10^46 M kg, and then make it explode into about 7,000,000 objects.

Too bad there wasn't any matter involved in the big bang. Matter appeared long after it. For such a simulation you would need radiation and dark matter.

Funny I was just thinking that, didn't matter appear afterwards? lol

Not only that I think making 7,000,000 (I dare say a much much larger figure than that) objects in a huge explosion would be a little taxing for a machine that's anything less powerful than say, IBM's deep blue.

[ChemicalBR0]

I have an alien as pet.

is his name Roger

[Grimbert]

not so much in mathematics and calculation. good maths has been around for thousands of years.
the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids by scetching the plans on a ciggy packet, something like that needed good planning and maths. (and don't tell me aliens built them

Math came a very long way from what the Egyptians knew about it. They use math in a practical way, like survey for landscaping and for architectural purposes... they didn't use mathematics as a mean to do any kind of physics or anything too abstract. The Pyramids were result of several hundred years of evolution in building techniques... they didn't just "plan a concept by using solely math".. their math came as a result of their builder prowess not the opposite.

[Ramierez]

how can you simulate something you really know nothing about 
it's all speculation. scientists just won't admit it.

without hard proof there is no science. scientists seem to forget that when it comes to things like the big bang, dark matter, dark energy.
they say there should be more matter in the universe but they can't detect it so they say it's dark matter.

how the hell do they know? have they seen the whole universe?

what is so hard for them just to say " y'know actually we don't have a bloody clue"

They know there's more mass than what they can see because of the effect on the space around galaxies and such.  Going by the visible mass alone, they came up short for what would be required to cause the gravitational influence on the surrounding area that they could observe.  Also the gravitational lensing effect from galaxies was much greater than the visible mass should cause.  Both of these showed an agreement that the majority of the mass of the galaxies is made up of some form of matter that they have, as of yet, been unable to directly measure or observe.  They Have been able to measure the amount that is lacking based on how much regular matter would be required to add on to compensate.

[Bla]

hundreds of years ago it was accepted knowledge that the earth was flat. now we know otherwise and look back at those people and laugh.

in another hundred years they will probably look back at us and say "can you believe those idiots thought there was a big bang"  

The reason that it was accepted knowledge that the Earth was flat houndreds of years ago, was because some religious authorities ordered everyone who dared to think otherwise killed.
There is plenty of evidence for the Big Bang, in contrast to the idea of a flat Earth. The cosmic microwave background is very good evidence of the Big Bang, and so is the fact that the redshift of galaxies increase the further away they are.

But no, there's no way to simulate it in Universe Sandbox. It would need completely different physics, too. The four forces weren't present from the start. Since Universe Sandbox only simulates gravity (as far as I know), it isn't possible.

[Nero]

how can you simulate something you really know nothing about  
it's all speculation. scientists just won't admit it.

without hard proof there is no science. scientists seem to forget that when it comes to things like the big bang, dark matter, dark energy.
they say there should be more matter in the universe but they can't detect it so they say it's dark matter.

how the hell do they know? have they seen the whole universe?

what is so hard for them just to say " y'know actually we don't have a bloody clue"

They know there's more mass than what they can see because of the effect on the space around galaxies and such.  Going by the visible mass alone, they came up short for what would be required to cause the gravitational influence on the surrounding area that they could observe.  Also the gravitational lensing effect from galaxies was much greater than the visible mass should cause.  Both of these showed an agreement that the majority of the mass of the galaxies is made up of some form of matter that they have, as of yet, been unable to directly measure or observe.  They Have been able to measure the amount that is lacking based on how much regular matter would be required to add on to compensate.

and on top of this, we know that without another source of matter the rotation of the galaxies would be unstable and wobble and that eventually due to the constant rotation,  the galaxies would oblate and then compress. i think Peebles and Ostriker concluded a simulation in which they had to give the Milky Way as much dark matter as actual matter before its rotation stabilized.
I have a link to webpage which discuses their simultions if anyone if interested

[shadowhunter388]

It may not be a big bang but it makes you feel like trillions of galaxies are spreading out.
1.Spawn a planet or whatever you want to use.
2.Spawn a ring around it (If you can do 1,000 go for it.
3.Delete spin timestep super fast.
4. Watch ring look like tons of galaxies spreading out. (Half to use a little imagination.)

[78stonewobble]

They "just" call it dark matter and dark energy for a lack of better words of something they don't understand or know what is yet.

There is ample proof that there is extra mass in the universe that is NOT visible stars or gas/dust clouds.

The mass doesn't really emit any kind of EM energy that we can see.


Personally I wonder about the following. The bigger a star the rarer it is. In that case there must be sh... uhm boat loads of red dwarf stars and even more brown dwarves around. Anyone know of any numbers/predictions on the ratios of bigger to smaller stellar objects?

Not that this could fully explain the amount of "dark matter".

[DroppedaBeat]

I don't think such a thing could be possible with current computers, let alone US. The best thing you could do is, like Darvince said, cause a massive explosion and hope your computer doesn't die!

I personally have my own theories about the Big Bang, to be slightly off-topic.

Consider:

1.) All galaxies have a supermassive black hole at its center.
2.) Galaxies are "mobile" -- Their centers move towards other galaxies.
3.) The nature of black holes is to consume -- mass approaching a black hole is added onto a black hole.

From this, one can logically assume that all mass in the universe, after an unfathomable amount of time, will eventually fall into one, single black hole.


I personally think that something happens to that black hole -- something to destabilize it (Here lies the biggest hole in the theory -- what could destabilize a singularity, let alone a black hole?), and release the mass. The sheer amount of energy such a process would release can only be described as that -- a sphere of pure energy being emitted back out into space.

Also consider that energy and matter are interchangeable -- An object traveling at (or beyond) the speed of light would "become" energy.

That is, in my opinion, what a "White Hole" would be. A being of pure energy being emitted out into space, condensing back into matter.

Such a thing would only exist once in a universe's lifetime -- at genesis, and can be comparable to a Big Bang.


Of course, this is still only theoretical at best, and is no better than the Big Bang "theory."

[Dan Dixon]

how can you simulate something you really know nothing about  
it's all speculation. scientists just won't admit it.

without hard proof there is no science. scientists seem to forget that when it comes to things like the big bang, dark matter, dark energy.
they say there should be more matter in the universe but they can't detect it so they say it's dark matter.

how the hell do they know? have they seen the whole universe?

what is so hard for them just to say " y'know actually we don't have a bloody clue"

I don't think your general claims about the scientific community are fair.

Scientists are often the first to admit when they don't know the answer. Scientists have no problem admitting that they don't know.

And to suggest that the big bang or dark matter is all speculation and not based on evidence is also unfair.

The theories regarding the big bang or dark matter are based on the observable evidence. And when scientists observe something that doesn't fit with their hypothesis then they change their hypothesis.

There is lots of evidence for the big bang:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

The detection of the Cosmic microwave background radiation is strong evidence for the big bang:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background_radiation

And while we don't understand that dark matter is, observations of the motions of galaxies suggests that something is there and currently we call that something dark matter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter


Simulating the Big Bang with Universe Sandbox would be very cool, but isn't as simple as a single exploding object, that expands outwards forever. Check out these videos for more info:

Two minute video on the Big Bang:
Big Bang Briefly (Briefly Ep. 01)

Where is the center of the Universe?
Where is the center of the Universe?

[Joshimitsu91]

From this, one can logically assume that all mass in the universe, after an unfathomable amount of time, will eventually fall into one, single black hole.

But black holes radiate energy and decay, so eventually there would just be radiation.