Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Politics  (Read 317288 times)

Xriqxa

  • *****
  • Posts: 1441
  • 01000011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01110101 01101
Re: Politics
« Reply #720 on: April 24, 2014, 11:30:37 PM »
As my dear friend also said:

DONT DO-IT!!!

STAYAP arguing!

Darvince

  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • 差不多
Re: Politics
« Reply #721 on: April 25, 2014, 06:03:13 AM »
This isn't even an argument, this is just phinehas saying "no" and then posting irrelevant links.

Xriqxa

  • *****
  • Posts: 1441
  • 01000011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01110101 01101
Re: Politics
« Reply #722 on: April 25, 2014, 09:32:42 AM »
I am official not on Phinehas's side anymore.

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #723 on: April 25, 2014, 10:29:14 AM »
This isn't even an argument, this is just phinehas saying "no" and then posting irrelevant links.

I don't recall you making a logical argument or having a valid rebuttal on anything.  It's nice to see a moment of written clarity though versus the usual, IB4 no egt smiley.jpg KOL, incoherence. You guy's really have no clue has to how you would be perceived in the world based on what you scribble here on this forum in crayon.

Quote
I am official not on Phinehas's side anymore.

No kidding.  What will I do now?

Xriqxa

  • *****
  • Posts: 1441
  • 01000011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01110101 01101
Re: Politics
« Reply #724 on: April 25, 2014, 10:31:12 AM »
You're being pretty aggressive...

STAYAP IT!

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #725 on: April 25, 2014, 10:34:09 AM »
Here we go again...Others say something...no problem.  I respond...and it's me being aggressive.

Besides, STAYAP isn't a word and I don't respond to such nonsense.  You don't like it, don't read what I post.  I'm pretty sure SMF has a feature to block user posts for you to see.  Google it.

Xriqxa

  • *****
  • Posts: 1441
  • 01000011 01101111 01101101 01101101 01110101 01101
Re: Politics
« Reply #726 on: April 25, 2014, 10:42:22 AM »
STAYAP as in how my friend flawlessly tries to make me laugh by making a weird

Quote
No kidding.  What will I do now?


Well, I was all you had. Now, you're on your own.

And yes, you are being aggressive. Darvince and dose people are just having a more-or-less civil debate or something, and then you butt in and speak your opinions and raise them above the rest so high you can't even see them.

Darvince

  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • 差不多
Re: Politics
« Reply #727 on: April 25, 2014, 01:36:54 PM »
That isn't the usual, you're just exaggerating those times when I do not make sense (on purpose) to pat yourself on the back and call it a day well done of trolling.

Bla

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • The stars died so you can live.
Re: Politics
« Reply #728 on: April 25, 2014, 01:42:28 PM »
I suspect few people understand the difference between socialism and communism, or how the communism you desire is different from what was implemented in the USSR historically. I'd love to hear your thoughts Bla.
Hijacking this to another thread :b

I think the USSR made some big mistakes on the democracy side and after Stalin took over, degenerated into a very oppressive society that I don't support, which it didn't properly recover from after the de-Stalinization.

Economically USSR's military was also a gigantic burden on its production and one of the main reason why its economy ended up falling apart, but I can understand why they focused so much on it despite their historically much smaller economy compared to the west, given the threats from the west, the second world war and many western interventions in the revolution to begin with. But I think the USSR wasted too many resources on its military and that it ended up being larger than necessary in the situation (especially their nuke stockpile).

But the situation that USSR was in when it was created and the historical events that shaped its history are also very different from the conditions that I usually think about when considering my ideology. In a developed country like many countries in the west, with technology like the internet and computers, there is a good infrastructure to create a planned economy based on a strong direct democractic influence in the economy and openly sharing information about the planning process, where the internet technology can be used more efficiently in determining the needs and problems in the economy compared to the older communication methods.

As for the differencies between socialism and communism, this is how I see them:

Socialism is a society with a fully planned economy, but where wages are still distributed based on the quality and quantity of people's work (unless they are judged unable to work for physical or mental reasons).
"From each according to their ability, to each according to their contribution."
Here wages still play as a factor in people's motivation to work (a role that should decrease over time to transition to a more need-based economy), and I'm not completely sure about what should be considered basic human rights and what should be granted in return for wages. Some examples of the services that I think should be universally granted in any socialist society are healthcare, clothing and collective transport. Housing/shelter I am also strongly leaning towards, but not food and luxuries. The extreme housing inequality that capitalism leaves behind would probably take decades to repair and balance, however.

Socialist societies in the past have proven, unlike capitalist ones, to be able to make unemployment virtually non-existant, and of course, if the state cannot supply work to some fraction of the work force for a period, that is the state's fault and not the jobless work force's fault, and the state should also cover their food and other fundamental needs. The distribution of income in this socialist society should be vastly more equal than that found in capitalism, where clearly bankers and those playing the stock economy game clearly do not work hundreds of times harder than a farmer or smith, but some people might earn somewhat more than others.
However, it should also be a harshly punished crime to refuse to work if you are capable of it.
In this socialist society, since the state sets all wages, taxes should also lose their meaning, as reducing wages becomes the exact same thing as increasing tax rate.

Communism is the future vision of a classless society where goods are distributed according to need. I don't think I follow Marxism completely here, because I see the most important factor in making this society possible as technology, which eventually replace humans in work completely.

I've written down some of my ideological goals here in a more general sense than to apply to the situation in specific countries and plan to expand and improve it over time:
http://www.nationstates.net/nation=blaist_blaland/detail=factbook/id=39987

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #729 on: April 25, 2014, 01:46:41 PM »
That isn't the usual, you're just exaggerating those times when I do not make sense (on purpose) to pat yourself on the back and call it a day well done of trolling.

smiley.jpg, xerkillswitch, uh? bypass cargo, yeah right..inb4 you take a crap.

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #730 on: April 25, 2014, 02:19:30 PM »

Dan Dixon

  • Creator of Universe Sandbox
  • Developer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3244
    • Personal Site
Re: Politics
« Reply #731 on: April 25, 2014, 02:47:11 PM »
Worth pointing out again how non-socialistic America currently is:

From 1977-2007... 60% of national income (in the United States) went to the top 1%.  - Source

And from 2009-2012 (while Obama has been president)... 95% of all income gains went to the top 1%.

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #732 on: April 25, 2014, 02:59:59 PM »
Yup, so un-Socialistic that the last line continues to spiral down...no wait.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Can you Socialist/Communists even fathom 128 Trillion dollars?  How your worldview has completely and utterly destroyed everything it get's it's hands on.  You can't and you never will comprehend something so simple.

vh

  • formerly mudkipz
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
  • "giving heat meaning"
Re: Politics
« Reply #733 on: April 25, 2014, 03:08:32 PM »
i don't know what you're trying to say

atomic7732

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
  • caught in the river turning blue
    • Paladin of Storms
Re: Politics
« Reply #734 on: April 25, 2014, 03:15:21 PM »
pls explain debt clock as your support because posting the link on its own isn't doing anything

Dan Dixon

  • Creator of Universe Sandbox
  • Developer
  • *****
  • Posts: 3244
    • Personal Site
Re: Politics
« Reply #735 on: April 25, 2014, 03:18:30 PM »
So you're saying that high income inequality is related to why we have such high debt?

That makes sense given that we continue to slash taxes on the rich. It is true that billionaires and millionaires pay a smaller percentage of their income than those that work for them.



Our debt wouldn't have been as high if congress hadn't approved the pointless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which will end up costing at least $4 trillion dollars (maybe as much as $6 trillion). They approved war while slashing taxes for the rich. Source

Just imagine other ways we could have spent $6 trillion dollars... on infrastructure, research, education, and increasing the well-being of all Americans.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 03:32:38 PM by Dan Dixon »

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #736 on: April 25, 2014, 03:31:36 PM »
So you're saying that high income inequality is related to why we have such high debt?

That makes sense given that we continue to slash taxes on the rich. It is true that billionaires and millionaires pay a smaller percentage of their income than those that work for them.

Nice deflection attempt but YOUR post made the assertion that the USA doesn't have Socialism.  I showed the plain hard facts that it does and it's cost is now at 128, soon to be 129 trillion dollars.  Yup, Socialism, it's logical thinking.  Not!  It's foolish, illogical and at 129 Trillion...insane...because the same people that watch it fail over and over again, continue to think it will work the next time.



I see crazy people.




phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #737 on: April 25, 2014, 03:34:21 PM »
Quote
Our debt wouldn't have been as high if congress hadn't approved the pointless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which will end up costing at least $4 trillion dollars (maybe as much as $6 trillion). They approved war while slashing taxes for the rich. Source

Nice try again.  Dan...the last line there...that's your Socialism programs, not even all of them...it's not the Pentagon budget.  Almost 129 Trillion.  This of course isn't just USA.

vh

  • formerly mudkipz
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
  • "giving heat meaning"
Re: Politics
« Reply #738 on: April 25, 2014, 03:36:29 PM »
that isn't a budget. that's a liability, which doesn't mean anything in your argument.

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #739 on: April 25, 2014, 03:38:02 PM »
pls explain debt clock as your support because posting the link on its own isn't doing anything

I understand that you can't comprehend what you are looking at.  Stare at it like a 3d stereogram and it might pop out for you.

atomic7732

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
  • caught in the river turning blue
    • Paladin of Storms
Re: Politics
« Reply #740 on: April 25, 2014, 03:40:23 PM »
Obviously the plain hard facts aren't plain or hard because you're the only one here that thinks the US is socialist

You constantly fail to understand communism and socialism because your information comes from someone on your side against the dictatorial failures of the cold war, like... cool that you disagree with those and yeah they failed but could you actually talk about something we don't know

Your brain is an interesting one... maybe you really hate capitalism actually. You just fundamentally misunderstand both economic concepts (capitalism and communism) that you praise capitalism, something "foreign" in your mind because apparently the United States hasn't been it... for its entire history. So you hate the current system (which is capitalist) but you think it and it's rulers are socialist... I finally see where you're coming from.

You hate the actual thing you're promoting, what a wonder this is to behold.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 03:47:45 PM by atomic7732 »

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #741 on: April 25, 2014, 03:42:53 PM »
that isn't a budget. that's a liability, which doesn't mean anything in your argument.

I can't help you comprehend the fact that 128 trillion Socialism debt and climbing has already blown any type of budget and proves my argument and completely destroyed Dan's assertion.

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #742 on: April 25, 2014, 03:48:09 PM »
obviously the plain hard facts aren't plain or hard because you're the only one here that thinks the US is socialist

you constantly fail to understand communism and socialism because your information comes from someone on your side against the dictatorial failures of the cold war, like... cool that you disagree with those and yeah they failed but could you actually talk about something we don't know

I am showing you the facts from the United States treasury relating to the United States of America, nothing about cold war dictatorial failures.  This is simply a failure of Socialism.  128 Trillion dollars shows it doesn't work in America either.

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #743 on: April 25, 2014, 04:04:07 PM »
Quote
because apparently the United States hasn't been it... for its entire history.

Google Social Security and all the other programs that make up the 128 Trillion dollars and come back and tell us what dates they were implemented.  Do you think it goes back to 1800s...1700s..uh, no.  Seriously, do you read what you are writing.

Quote
So you hate the current system (which is capitalist) but you think it and it's rulers are socialist... I finally see where you're coming from.

You hate the actual thing you're promoting, what a wonder this is to behold.

Nope, you are still confused because you don't have a firm enough grasp on history and economics...so what I am saying is "something "foreign" in your mind..."

vh

  • formerly mudkipz
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
  • "giving heat meaning"
Re: Politics
« Reply #744 on: April 25, 2014, 04:12:34 PM »
Quote
I can't help you comprehend the fact that 128 trillion Socialism debt and climbing has already blown any type of budget and proves my argument and completely destroyed Dan's assertion.

1. wth is "Socialism debt". this has nothing to do with socialism
2. you didn't destroy dan's assertion. that's like saying 128 is greater than 6 so 6 is not a number
3. you didn't prove your argument because the us debt clock is not even relevant

phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #745 on: April 25, 2014, 04:23:41 PM »
Quote
1. wth is "Socialism debt". this has nothing to do with socialism
2. you didn't destroy dan's assertion. that's like saying 128 is greater than 6 so 6 is not a number
3. you didn't prove your argument because the us debt clock is not even relevant

1.  Debt directly related to Social programs does indeed have everything to do with it. The debt incurred by your fictional father by gambling...does indeed have something to do with gambling.

2.  That makes no sense at all.  Dan stated this: "Worth pointing out again how non-socialistic America currently is:"  He asserted that the America was non-socialistic...I gave 128 trillion reasons why his assertion was false.  Dan then had to create straw men versus defending his original assertion...cause he knew it got blown out of his Universe Sandbox.

3.  See 1 and 2.  Relevancy clearly shown....over and over.

atomic7732

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
  • caught in the river turning blue
    • Paladin of Storms
Re: Politics
« Reply #746 on: April 25, 2014, 04:25:30 PM »
Quote
because apparently the United States hasn't been it... for its entire history.

Google Social Security and all the other programs that make up the 128 Trillion dollars and come back and tell us what dates they were implemented.  Do you think it goes back to 1800s...1700s..uh, no.  Seriously, do you read what you are writing.
because a social safety net is socialism. last I checked corporations (are those socialist?) had their interests protected fiercely by the government and they always have since industrialization began. at the expense of not only whites but also (most significantly) amerindians, immigrants, and blacks. get back to me when the government protects the people, then call the united states socialist. kthx.

Quote
Quote
So you hate the current system (which is capitalist) but you think it and it's rulers are socialist... I finally see where you're coming from.

You hate the actual thing you're promoting, what a wonder this is to behold.

Nope, you are still confused because you don't have a firm enough grasp on history and economics...so what I am saying is "something "foreign" in your mind..."
lol i may not have a PhD in economics, or be a history professor, but i highly doubt you're any more qualified than me to be arguing about anything you're saying, cause you aren't doing a very good job

The United States is, objectively, capitalist. By that logic, you are hating a system you so wholeheartedly defend, passing it off as something you hardly understand and have never lived under (socialism), because in your mind, you see that the system in place has failed, so obviously since capitalism is a perfect, incorruptable, system that serves justice to all people based on their willingness to work and prosper for themselves, a failed system cannot be capitalist! It must be socialist because a capitalist system is ideal and would work perfectly no matter what, so you project its failures onto some system which you try so hard (and fail) to argue is in place.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 04:31:08 PM by atomic7732 »

vh

  • formerly mudkipz
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
  • "giving heat meaning"
Re: Politics
« Reply #747 on: April 25, 2014, 04:25:47 PM »
Quote
1.  Debt directly related to Social programs does indeed have everything to do with it. The debt incurred by your fictional father by gambling...does indeed have something to do with gambling.
what social programs

Quote
2.  That makes no sense at all.  Dan stated this: "Worth pointing out again how non-socialistic America currently is:"  He asserted that the America was non-socialistic...I gave 128 trillion reasons why his assertion was false.
oh yeah well i have $5. that'll prove america is truly capitalist


phinehas

  • Regular sans EE
  • *
  • Posts: 177
Re: Politics
« Reply #748 on: April 25, 2014, 04:26:57 PM »
vh, your comments don't deserve a response..try harder.

atomic7732

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3846
  • caught in the river turning blue
    • Paladin of Storms
Re: Politics
« Reply #749 on: April 25, 2014, 04:28:44 PM »
frankly we're all getting tired of your bullshit... try harder