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Author Topic: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...  (Read 19817 times)

gabriel.dac

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Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« on: November 24, 2013, 03:13:40 PM »
...Why don't we PUT life in other planets? I mean, nowadays we can manipulate the DNA, so maybe in a near future we can make a bacteria that can live in Mars, for example. Then maybe it will evolve into more complex beings. Is it possible?

blotz

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 04:39:46 PM »
have you read SPIN? i forgot the author but it's a book where there's like a near time-stop on earth, and every hour on earth is like 3.17 years outside of the forcefield. and they planted life on mars, which developed and then got time stopped as well. then they - well don't want to spoil it

tuto99

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 08:08:36 PM »
...Why don't we PUT life in other planets? I mean, nowadays we can manipulate the DNA, so maybe in a near future we can make a bacteria that can live in Mars, for example. Then maybe it will evolve into more complex beings. Is it possible?
Well, first we have to be able to find a decent planet to put life in. Mars is a very inhospitable place to most life on Earth. I believe there are a few bacteria that can survive such conditions that you find on Mars. Mars is not a promising candidate though, unless we can terraform it, which is another issue. If we can find a decent enough planet to place life in, (though the closest extraterrestrial planet is I don't know how many light years away from us, and that's a whole other problem itself) then creating an ecosystem is another problem. I don't think we can just plop down some producers, primary, secondary, and tertiary consumers and instantly make a stable ecosystem. Also, the soil, atmosphere, and possibly the water on that planet could be different than what we find on Earth, so Earth life may be incompatible for that planet. Overall, placing life on other planets is not going to happen for a long time, not until we can visit other planets in a comfortable time span. Even so, finding the perfect planet may be difficult. I haven't even pointed out all of the issues that we would have.

Chaou

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 11:03:20 PM »
I'm curious, would we currently have the technology to cause a comet to crash into mars, to perhaps create larger ice deposits that primitive life could survive in, and maybe create a slightly thicker atmosphere. What if we could start a second period of geological activity?

Unreal2004

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2013, 02:28:02 AM »
I'm curious, would we currently have the technology to cause a comet to crash into mars, to perhaps create larger ice deposits that primitive life could survive in, and maybe create a slightly thicker atmosphere. What if we could start a second period of geological activity?


Mars is too small to have an active core anymore, the planet has lost enough internal heat to the point its core is no longer liquid over solid but mostly solid with (possibly) a few "softer" spots depending on the sulfur content so there will be no widespread geological activity from an impact, only localized heating.  Also without an active core you have no active magnetic field so any increase in atmospheric density will quickly (in cosmological time) be lost to space due to erosion from the solar wind.  As for the technology to move a comet, on paper we do have the technology since all it takes is to put a mass next to the comet or "paint" part of it to slowly change it's trajectory however this will take a LOOOOOOOOOONG time to do with current vehicle sizes and masses.  The only real way that could be used to move a comet would be to land some sort of propulsion device on it and use the comets material for the fuel itself to power the rocket, even then you are talking about such a minuscule amount of thrust vs mass that it would be, for practical reasons, impossible.

The best way to terraform Mars would be to use the resources on Mars itself, dig down and heat the ice that is there creating an atmosphere of CO2 and H2O, there would need to be some sort of shield in orbit to stop/slow the solar wind to keep the sun from stripping Mars of it's new atmosphere but that could be possible with current technology, maybe there could be a grid in orbit generating its own magnetic field that could just deflect/slow the particles instead of stopping them while letting light through.

We would still have the problems though of the extreme amount of oxidizing chemicals on the surface (peroxides) that would interfere with any introduction of life to Mars.  In the end Mars will really only be habitable by pods and contained spaces and not on a global scale and definitely not at our current tech level or "willingness" for the people of this planet to WANT to go there.

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 07:04:13 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:27:18 PM by phinehas »

vh

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phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 07:25:09 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:26:51 PM by phinehas »

vh

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 04:46:09 AM »
right but if we sent something to mars we wouldn't use it to produce humulin. we would use it for something else.

it make take a billion years, or it may take ten. the flu evolves on a time scale perceptible by humans.

as for expensive, the MSL mission was less than 0.1% of the us federal budget

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2013, 06:53:49 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:26:26 PM by phinehas »

FiahOwl

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 08:37:58 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:22:22 AM by FiahOwl »

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 10:02:32 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:25:23 PM by phinehas »

vh

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2013, 12:47:25 PM »
why do anything then? maybe we should establish the ultimate goal of society before debating whether something is worth the effort.

A virus requires a living cell to reproduce in.  These irrational reasons to justify a Mars mission can be done out of your pocket.

bacteria evolve resistance to antibodies too. and i'm not sure what you mean by my pocket

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2013, 02:33:40 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:24:46 PM by phinehas »

Darvince

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2013, 02:44:12 PM »
So what if our goal is to extend life? Since that increases how much you are able to do, as most things today don't require a lot of physical expenditure, is that always a worthy goal?

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2013, 03:36:37 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:24:20 PM by phinehas »

vh

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2013, 03:54:31 PM »
so what do you suggest as a goal

Darvince

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2013, 05:44:05 PM »
phinehas they don't require a lot compared to pre-industrial revolution when there was barely have any automation? also extending life does mean you are able to do more because you are healthier at 50 years old than you would be without your life extended. of course the very old will be "useless" and should be killed because capitalism, but your prime becomes longer, from 21 to 43 instead of 20 to 29.

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2013, 06:33:52 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:16:13 PM by phinehas »

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2013, 06:41:11 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:16:23 PM by phinehas »

vh

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2013, 07:33:11 PM »
goal for humanity, society.

atomic7732

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2013, 06:46:00 AM »
You need to study history more..."useless" eaters is a trademark of Socialist/Communist thinkers.  
The only ones I hear complaining about useless people are the conservative capitalists saying people need to work hard and not leech off benefits and welfare. It's on the other side, brother.

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2013, 08:57:16 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:16:40 PM by phinehas »

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2013, 09:16:30 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:16:50 PM by phinehas »

Bla

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2013, 09:38:57 AM »
The only ones I hear complaining about useless people are the conservative capitalists saying people need to work hard and not leech off benefits and welfare. It's on the other side, brother.
I agree that it is a common worldview I find among some pro-capitalists here, who seem to view people who get state support after losing their jobs as lazy/useless parasites.

But at the same time, people who earn millions or billions from sitting and doing nothing but manipulate money or create stock buy-/sell algorithms or spambot programs, or even the legal advertising of which the vast majority is nothing but propaganda that only serves to inflate our consumption of resources, or consider the people who get rich from paying the 25 million coffee farmers in the developing countries tiny wages and then adding several times the production costs to the values they're sold for in the industrialized countries, or consider all the people who work to produce wine, beer and all the other alcohol products, all the candy that contributes to people getting poor health, inflating the resources needed to be spent on healthcare and reducing people's productivity, those who work to produce cigarettes and those who make money from spreading this cancerous plague across the world, and so on. To me it seems like society would be better off without them in their current positions. Some of them are immoral parasites who are simply happy to see millions of coins pour in in proportion to the number of people who get cancer or COPD from smoking. The majority is obviously people who simply have jobs that contribute to the economy in the ridiculous system of capitalism, but who I would never blame for the faults of the economic system or the industry they work for.

That's not to say they're useless, they're not "useless" people, many of their current positions are, but of course they can get new positions that contribute to society. And people who can't contribute to society as in working (I guess that would be the "definition" of "useless" in this context if anything, not that people who can't work can't contribute in other ways to make all people's lives happier or experience good things themselves), I would fully be for them being treated just as well as everybody else if they are not to blame for not being able to work. On the other hand, it seems like some pro-capitalists think those people deserve to starve to death (the logical implication of a system with no guaranteed support for people who for example were born with conditions that would make them unable to earn money and thus support themselves), while it's fair that the money-manipulators can have incomes that are hundreds or thousands of times bigger than the people who construct buildings or harvest oats, or millions if they happen to harvest coffee beans.



In reply to the OP, of course we could put life on another planet and let it evolve, but I don't think it would be that interesting. You might as well create a small, special environment for the life forms you want to see evolve here on Earth, that would be much easier and cheaper to control and observe, and could probably be made very similar to the environment on other planets except for gravitational acceleration.

Finding life elsewhere in the universe would be a completely different accomplishment. First of all we wouldn't have to wait the probably millions of years it would take for macroscopic life forms to evolve if we just put life on another planet (if it wouldn't simply die out), secondly we could learn a lot more about the possibilities for life forms to exist or the probabilities of it existing if we found it independently of life forms on Earth. Maybe life forms elsewhere would be very different (chemically) from how they are on Earth, in ways that we could not achieve if we started out with (for example) bacteria from Earth.

As for setting goals for humanity, I think one of the most important goals is how we can maximize the happiness and minimize the pain of life forms that can experience it. The society that would come closest to achieving this I see as the classless communist society, the goal for humanity's future, that could be achieved through socialism and progress in technology.
I think another goal is to get the best possible understanding of the universe, simply because it's very interesting, but also because it pays off in terms of technology that can improve our lives. That includes searching for life elsewhere - this mostly falls under the interesting part though.

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2013, 11:06:59 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:17:02 PM by phinehas »

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2013, 11:18:46 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:23:09 PM by phinehas »

atomic7732

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2013, 11:21:20 AM »
i find it laughable you think there is plenty of help going out to those affected by natural disasters and that only people with a god and a soul do it

typhoon haiyan is a perfect example of why you're wrong

ps  of course north korea is a shitty country

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2013, 11:25:09 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:22:48 PM by phinehas »

phinehas

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Re: Rather than trying to find life in other planets...
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2013, 11:27:26 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:22:34 PM by phinehas »