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Author Topic: Black hole overload?  (Read 6695 times)

Chaou

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Black hole overload?
« on: April 30, 2013, 06:52:19 PM »
(skip to second paragraph if you don't feel like hearing the back-story and reason for the question.)
Hey, hope this is the right section. I've been working on this theoretical universe I'm creating from scratch, basically the structure of it is a 3-dimensional sphere with the galaxies, etc. inside of it (not on the surface). It is roughly 720 billion light years across. There is a solid shell surrounding the entire universe that would go on forever except for the fact that beyond a certain point space is entirely composed of black holes and space-time itself begins to disintegrate, the radiation from the black holes balances out the force from the outward expansion of dark matter at the cost of a gravity of about 1,700 G at the concave surface.

Now here's where I'm having a bit of trouble and need help. I know that if a supermassive black hole from a galaxy draws in more matter than it can consume, some will be released in the form of x-ray jets. What if that black hole is propelled at a near limitless amount of matter beyond a certain point at 71 km/s at a finite rate? Would that black hole simply keep absorbing the additional mass as it got larger and became a quasar, or would the force of the quasar's x-ray jets create some sort of lift, pushing it away from the shell despite the constant 71 km/s velocity from the dark matter of the universe. Or would it even be overloaded to the extent that not only would it have too much incoming matter to absorb at once, but it would also have more matter than it could physically expel faster than it is gaining it, perhaps creating some type of gamma-ray burst or something else?

blotz

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Re: Black hole overload?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 07:00:00 PM »
seems like a nice project anyhow :)

sadly, i don't really understand the second question, a bit to complicated

vh

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Re: Black hole overload?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 07:05:21 PM »
dark matter causes the contraction of the universe and it accounts for most of the mass in our universe. i think you may mean dark energy, which causes expansion of space

x-ray jets are caused by friction, not surplus matter
there isn't a limit to how much matter can enter the event horizon of a black hole afaik
a quasar is an active blackhole/nucleus at the center of a galaxy
a gamma-ray burst is thought to be cause by supernova or neutron star collisions

here's how i understand the question because it's worded strangely

if matter enters a super massive blackhole at over 71 km/s, but still at a finite rate:
does it get larger, get pushed away from the shell, or expel matter?

the blackhole would get larger because it's absorbing matter, and it would also expel matter in the form of radiation. a quasar like object might result but there should be no gamma ray burst

depending on the mass of the black holes, the x-ray jets may or may not shift it.
however, radiation pressure is extremely small. by comparison, the momentum of the matter falling into the black hole is far more likely to shift the balance.


Chaou

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Re: Black hole overload?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 11:12:03 AM »
dark matter causes the contraction of the universe and it accounts for most of the mass in our universe. i think you may mean dark energy, which causes expansion of space

x-ray jets are caused by friction, not surplus matter
there isn't a limit to how much matter can enter the event horizon of a black hole afaik
a quasar is an active blackhole/nucleus at the center of a galaxy
a gamma-ray burst is thought to be cause by supernova or neutron star collisions

here's how i understand the question because it's worded strangely

if matter enters a super massive blackhole at over 71 km/s, but still at a finite rate:
does it get larger, get pushed away from the shell, or expel matter?

the blackhole would get larger because it's absorbing matter, and it would also expel matter in the form of radiation. a quasar like object might result but there should be no gamma ray burst

depending on the mass of the black holes, the x-ray jets may or may not shift it.
however, radiation pressure is extremely small. by comparison, the momentum of the matter falling into the black hole is far more likely to shift the balance.



Ah, thanks. I posted fairly late at night so I may have misworded a few things. I meant dark energy, what I meant is what if the black hole itself was pushed into the matter, with the matter taking the form of a non-moving shell a few thousand light years thick around the edge of the universe. The black hole is moving toward the shell at 71 km/s from the outward expansion force of dark energy. My question was theoretically, what would happen if the supermassive black hole of a galaxy collided with such a shell. Let's use our own galactic nucleus as an example, if it was moving at that speed toward the shell, would the friction of the blackhole being pushed against such an enormous amount of matter be enough to halt the force of the blackhole being pushed at the shell at 71 km/s or something else?

Here's a poorly drawn picture of the scenario I am thinking of:

White: The universe inside of the hollow shell, about 720 billion light years across.
Brown: The material the shell is made of which is around 5,000 light years thick, composed mostly of silicate, carbon, iron, and various ices as well as a thick atmosphere of helium and hydrogen.
Black: The point where the material is so condensed that it is entirely composed of black holes, the friction of this reaches a balance preventing the universe from expanding or contracting.
Little Navy Blue Circle: The supermassive black hole heading toward the shell at 71 km/s, which is drastically small in comparison to the massive shell.

((Thanks for responding btw, I just realized who you were actually. I use your textures all the time, they're very useful.))

vh

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Re: Black hole overload?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 12:18:37 PM »
there's a problem that the shell will not stop the universe from expanding due to dark energy, only gravity can do that.
for example, if you put a rubberband inside a balloon to stop it from expanding, the balloon can still be inflated. there's no way to attach the rubberband to the balloon just as there is no way to anchor your theoretical shell to space.

gravity can hold the universe together. if you pretend there are dots on the balloon, and each dot represents a galaxy, then gravity pulls the dots together. it keeps all the dots together because gravity connects the dots while the rubberband didn't connect to anything. the black hole ring in your scenario might stop the expansion of the universe by pulling it together with gravity



the blackholes would be consuming and accreting the brown material constantly, although since the shell appears to at least 50 billion light-years in thickness so that would take a while.

the brown shell would probably be collapsing into the black shell faster than 71 km/s (stars in the milky way orbit at speeds of 200+km/s), so the supermassive blackhole that is heading towards the black shell will be either consumed by another blackhole or become arrested due to its gravitational field
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 12:27:15 PM by vh »

blotz

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Re: Black hole overload?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 01:16:18 PM »
wait what where does vh have textures