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Author Topic: Breaking News...!  (Read 5984 times)

Austritistanian

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Breaking News...!
« on: November 09, 2016, 02:08:39 AM »
For those who rarely listened to the news like me
http://time.com/4563685/donald-trump-wins/

« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 02:14:29 AM by Austritistanian »

FiahOwl

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 09:21:13 AM »

This message is only viewable with Universe Sandbox Galaxy Edition. Access it and much more with promo-code '175659'.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:00:17 AM by FiahOwl »

vh

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2016, 09:27:58 AM »
HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRISON 2016
BERNIE SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT 2020

we can make this happen

vh

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 09:41:55 AM »
pointer arithmetic

<meme>

not even once

tuto99

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 11:52:07 AM »
My stance:

I have no idea what is going to happen over the next four years; regardless, we will live through them. This country has seen its fair share of bad presidents in the more than two hundred years of its existence.
same

atomic7732

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 12:10:06 PM »
My stance:

I have no idea what is going to happen over the next four years; regardless, we will live through them. This country has seen its fair share of bad presidents in the more than two hundred years of its existence.
empires always fall

FiahOwl

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2016, 12:11:56 PM »

This message is only viewable with Universe Sandbox Galaxy Edition. Access it and much more with promo-code '175665'.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:00:12 AM by FiahOwl »

tuto99

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2016, 12:19:03 PM »
yes but he'd have to do something incredibly profound to kill this country in four years, such as starting a nuclear war
same

atomic7732

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 12:21:17 PM »
would you really put it past him to do that?


Darvince

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 01:02:48 PM »
Everything Gets More Dire Forever

atomic7732

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 01:31:50 PM »
i'm not saying he's going to destroy the country in four years but this may be the start of something that does eventually

Bla

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 03:57:51 PM »
I don't think he'll destroy the country. I think the corrupt system that produced two candidates so bad as Hillary and Trump may do that over time though, by polarizing the country as it gives an elite ever more power and wealth at the expense of the masses who work for them. The US election has been a complete farce to follow here, and I'd wish the media just didn't cover it here in Denmark, because there has been absolutely nothing worthy of media attention. Vote Trump because Hillary is corrupt and all her scandals... Vote Hillary because Trump is corrupt and all his stupid remarks... Oh now the media shows one of Trump's scandals, damn it hilliberal Hillary-supporting media who just wants all the Danes to like Hillary. I get so tired of it.

USA needs a revolution that kicks the capitalists out of political influence so they could have leaders that are there for the benefit of the people and not the capitalists. Until then I think farces like these will just repeat in the future elections. And I think that'll be a long time, as USA isn't close to developing a revolutionary socialist consciousness.

atomic7732

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2016, 04:22:32 PM »
true

Darvince

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 04:34:11 PM »
Not only that, but a more immediately noticeable effect is that the electoral college is currently biased against the Democratic party because of the empty states of the Midwest which have no people and are heavily Republican, meaning that the disparity of the importance of a Wyomingite's vote to a Californian's vote is 4.3 times. 4.3.

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

Darvince

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 02:39:03 AM »
i 👏 can't 👏 believe 👏 we 👏 are 👏 entering 👏 a 👏 period 👏 of 👏 western 👏 fascism

Darvince

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2016, 04:17:09 AM »
we need to add in a shy fascist effect to polls - when something outrageous and far right is on the ballot, multiply their supporters by 4% to find an amount closer to the true number of supporters. then we could've seen how very real of a possibility brexit was and how dire the situation with the clinton campaign was

that would have shown brexit winning and on 538 a 70-80% chance of trump winning
and the 2015 British general election polls would have only been off by 3% towards the left

atomic7732

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2016, 07:54:33 AM »
maybe don't use the same factor for two different countries

blotz

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2016, 08:04:57 AM »
bernie sanders

Darvince

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2016, 04:22:32 PM »
no this is a global poll adjustment

atomic7732

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2016, 08:03:40 PM »
sounds like bad statistics

Darvince

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2016, 09:16:53 PM »
well then how do you poll for who is hiding that they are voting for a fascist

Darvince

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2016, 07:05:34 AM »

atomic7732

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2016, 02:09:57 PM »
that is great

JMBuilder

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2016, 09:11:04 PM »
We need leaders who will let capitalism work. Both parties have been spending trillions and twisting the laws of supply and demand until they're supplying what isn't demanded and demanding what isn't supplied.

The government needs to stop monopolizing healthcare and the like and focus on the broad issues, such as international affairs, national defense, interstate funding, etc..

Any type of social service is up to local communities and state governments. We need to stop expecting the federal government to act as a one-size-fits-all solution to everything for over 300,000,000 people, no matter what party they are.

Maybe, just maybe, we can get a libertarian next time.

atomic7732

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Bla

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2016, 05:35:21 AM »
We need leaders who will let capitalism work. Both parties have been spending trillions and twisting the laws of supply and demand until they're supplying what isn't demanded and demanding what isn't supplied.

The government needs to stop monopolizing healthcare and the like and focus on the broad issues, such as international affairs, national defense, interstate funding, etc..

Any type of social service is up to local communities and state governments. We need to stop expecting the federal government to act as a one-size-fits-all solution to everything for over 300,000,000 people, no matter what party they are.

Maybe, just maybe, we can get a libertarian next time.
The problem is you cannot let capitalism work, because capitalism is itself a broken system, with the capitalists and proletariat having opposite interests, leading to conflict. A system based on supply and demand in wages leads to a fraction of the population being constantly unemployed just so the wages are kept in balance. People tend to not enjoy sitting and worrying about losing their job all the time, losing their income or even being forced out on the street. People who could have great potential but who grow up in poor families tend to never get their chance because they can't afford good education. An elite of capitalists sits and takes the surplus value of the work created by the workers, that is the definition of parasitism. Every street corner is filled with propaganda convincing people to buy more stuff they don't need, infecting our culture with greed and consumerism, and damaging the environment. The shops make their prices jump up and down by 50% every week just so they can constantly pretend stuff is on sale and put more money into some filthy capitalist's pockets so they can buy their sixth Porsche. To get the cheapest offers you need to be a loyal customer to a shop and spend half your spare time browsing their weekly offers catalogs. It's a totally ridiculous system, but it's a free market. I really think the free market shouldn't be blindly trusted with prioritizing our economy when it lets some people buy 1000 sq. m mansions and a parking house full of luxury cars while there are people sleeping on the streets and people working all day just to afford basic supplies and a basic home.

However, thanks to the capitalist system, all the power and wealth accumulated by these capitalists tends to make them simply take over both of USA's political parties and run them for the benefit of their companies rather than your country, so ironically, it will probably be hard to get "real capitalism" back. Is there any liberal/libertarian/capitalist party that isn't 95% funded by the capitalists anyway.

JMBuilder

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2016, 10:01:57 PM »
Capitalism takes several basic realities into account:
1. Greed is human nature.
2. There will always be poor people.
3. Nothing is free.
4. Nobody is entitled to anything.

It also relies heavily on the idea of "caveat emptor," or "buyer beware." If a big business (or "bourgeoisie" as good ol' Karl put it) is corrupt and untrustworthy, the solution is to not do business with them. If they extend into the government, don't vote for them. Term limits on congress members would help a lot.

The elite class still has to work in order to keep the business managed and functional. They don't just sit around doing nothing.

Alternatives to the capitalist system tend to be even more broken for the same reasons. Even with today's popular "democratic socialism," a bourgeoisie builds up over time as the population grows.

A big government is no more trustworthy than a big business. They tend to parallel each other.

Bla

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2016, 07:54:05 AM »
Capitalism takes several basic realities into account:
1. Greed is human nature.
2. There will always be poor people.
3. Nothing is free.
4. Nobody is entitled to anything.

1: Most people are greedy to some extent but some people are more greedy than others, and that can be shaped by e.g. their environment/upbringing. Society shouldn't embrace it but strive to minimize it in favor of altruism. Parasitic greedy activity which is let loose in a free market should be punished, but people should still be rewarded for hard work.
2: Different countries have very different fractions of people who are poor. Even if it were true and it's not possible to fix in the future with better technology and a better system, there's a huge difference between 0.001% of a population being poor and having a working class which works all day yet is still poor.
3: I don't see your point here.
4: Let's go right ahead and take away all that wealth the capitalists were never entitled to then.

It also relies heavily on the idea of "caveat emptor," or "buyer beware." If a big business (or "bourgeoisie" as good ol' Karl put it) is corrupt and untrustworthy, the solution is to not do business with them. If they extend into the government, don't vote for them. Term limits on congress members would help a lot.
It sounds nice in theory but it's not happening in reality. USA and Europe have only gotten increasingly corrupt over the past 30 years with capitalists increasingly lobbying and interfering in politics. I wonder how one would even stop doing business with so many morally bankrupt companies people's every-day lives rely on. I already avoid Nestle, Coca Cola and some others, I changed bank, avoid certain clothes, but I can't spend my entire life researching the ethics of every company, and there are many areas where none of the companies are ethical - most people are simply too apathetic or take too little time to make your idea work. And I wonder how in USA, you would get a new system when capitalists have taken over the Democrats and Republicans which pits most people to vote for either just to avoid the other worse alternative.

The elite class still has to work in order to keep the business managed and functional. They don't just sit around doing nothing.
Most of the elite does work, but not an amount that entitles them to 100 or more times the income than the workers who spend 60 hours a week in a factory or similar. The capitalists mainly get their ridiculous wealth by taking a part of the value created by the workers, that's parasitism.

Alternatives to the capitalist system tend to be even more broken for the same reasons. Even with today's popular "democratic socialism," a bourgeoisie builds up over time as the population grows.

A big government is no more trustworthy than a big business. They tend to parallel each other.
I live in Denmark which is less capitalist than USA, and I'd say USA is more broken. I don't see a tendency for alternatives to capitalism to be broken for the reasons you gave. USA and Europe or their companies has plundered and colonized half the world to get their wealth. Many third world countries are also capitalist and have never succeeded. Many countries trying socialism have historically been poor before socialism but then been isolated and attacked by some of the rich capitalist countries, or stagnated because of an arms race with them. There's complex reasons behind it all, not simply things like human nature or nothing is free.

A big government has the opportunity to be under democratic control, which is a major difference from a big business. And if you ask which trades people trust the workers in more, in Denmark, they rank from 1-5 least/most:

4.04: Nurses
3.94: Judges
3.94: Doctors
3.81: Policemen
3.67: Soldiers
3.56: Dentists
3.51: School teachers
3.50: Home helpers
3.50: Teachers for children
3.37: Hairdressers
3.32: Bus drivers
3.31: Lawyers
3.26: Farmers
3.19: Craftsmen
3.03: Mechanics
2.86: Bank advisors
2.57: Realtors
2.46: Journalists
2.39: Car sellers
2.06: Politicians

http://radiuskommunikation.dk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Trov%C3%A6rdighedsanalyse-2016-Mange-faggrupper-oplever-stigende-trov%C3%A6rdighed.pdf

Maybe because a public healthcare system actually works and isn't just there to convince people they need some expensive operations or medicine, unlike the bank advisors, realtors and car sellers who are there only there to get away with as many lies as are necessary to drag the most money out of the customer.

JMBuilder

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Re: Breaking News...!
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2016, 12:33:42 PM »
Denmark has a population of about 5.6 million. The US has a population of over 300 million. Denmark is roughly the size of one state, and with such a small population, more socialistic endeavors are a bit more practical. It depends on the culture(s).

With such a massive population, and thus such a high demand for jobs, the minimum wage is very low. Many people gripe that the minimum wage hasn't gone up with inflation, but again, with the massive population and high demand for the jobs, raising it would actually CAUSE inflation.

I imagine Denmark is a little haven, with a small enough population to enjoy a very good minimum wage and a close-knit culture and society. The US is vastly different. We're not nearly as close-knit where culture is concerned, making stereotyping run rampant and dividing the population in ridiculous ways (as evident by the anti-Trump protests; they preach tolerance and then show none).