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FiahOwl

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Re: Politics
« Reply #150 on: February 01, 2012, 09:11:57 AM »

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Bla

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atomic7732

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Re: Politics
« Reply #152 on: March 05, 2012, 03:12:54 PM »
Kol? This is outrageous.

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #153 on: March 05, 2012, 03:35:37 PM »
I just realized... Some of the most stupid people on earth are competing for the most powerful position on this planet.

http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2011/10/smart-president/
not really

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #154 on: March 25, 2012, 04:43:20 AM »
Speaking of corruption, meanwhile in UK's conservative party...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17503116

"Conservative Party co-treasurer Peter Cruddas has resigned after secretly filmed footage showed him apparently offering access to the prime minister for a donation of £250,000 a year.

He made the claim to Sunday Times reporters posing as potential donors.

He said £250,000 gave "premier league" access, including dinner with David Cameron and possibly the chance to influence government policy."

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #155 on: June 07, 2012, 12:11:09 PM »
And finally gay marriage has been legalized in Denmark, 85 voting for, 24 voting against, 2 neither for or against, and 68 not being there to vote.

Everyone from the Unity List, Socialist People's Party, Social Democrats and Radical Left who were there voted for. From who were present from the opposition, everyone from Liberal Alliance voted for, 62% of Left voted for and 7% neither for/against, 67% of Conservative People's Party voted for, and everyone from Danish People's Party voted against.

Source: http://www.ft.dk/samling/20111/lovforslag/l106/93/310/afstemning.htm?samling/20111/lovforslag/l106/93/310/afstemning.htm&sortColumn=vote&sortOrder=asc&pageNr=1&pageSize=1
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 12:21:39 PM by Bla »

FiahOwl

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Re: Politics
« Reply #156 on: June 07, 2012, 12:20:27 PM »

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atomic7732

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Re: Politics
« Reply #157 on: June 10, 2012, 11:40:32 PM »

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #158 on: June 11, 2012, 03:48:43 PM »

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #159 on: June 12, 2012, 04:07:02 PM »
sounds political

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #160 on: June 13, 2012, 08:40:10 AM »

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #161 on: June 16, 2012, 12:38:12 PM »
I'd throw a bucketful of things out here and reply to you, but since this forum is mainly communistic I'd get bashed and bashed and a thousand soviet parades.
The forum being mainly communistic wouldn't mean they automatically bash you, I don't see when we've ever done that or flooded you with soviet parades (except for that one time where I posted one on IRC because you sort of asked for it).

In a communist country everybody would get the same benefit whether they worked their hardest or slacked off.Which means many people would slack off because they realize they don't have to work very hard to get anything,
I don't know how many here are actually communist and not just socialist, but I don't myself think that communism will exist before all (or almost all) human work has been replaced by robots and computers. Communism is achieved through the intermediate stage of socialism. Here people who work would all be rewarded equally and the government would ensure that there is work for everyone, as opposed to the market, where there is constantly a smaller or bigger excess portion of the population with no work in order to keep a pressure on the wages. However, working is also a duty, and those who don't work will be forced to work, at least according to my socialism. You said we could "trust you that people would still slack off" even if we have people who inspect the work people do. I simply don't think so, I think it is possible to make a system where people inspect different production facilities independently, gather information like statistics. If a factory simply isn't providing the parts it was meant to or predicted to deliver to the other sectors, they will obviously find out and investigate what's wrong with the factory.

whereas a country with a free market policy would motivate workers to work because they could get better rewards and live a better life.
Sounds good in theory... Reality is, the rich elite will remain in control of the production system and try to keep their wages up and the wages of the vast majority down. You only need to look at the income equality in USA to see how this works. Also, there are many other things which can motivate people. Personally I am much more motivated by the idea that I help society and everybody else than by the fact that I get more money from working. Other people are motivated to work by their interests. I don't want to become a scientist because I want to be rich, then everyone would probably want to own Microsoft... I want to be a scientist because I like science, it's interesting and amazing.
In fact, the incomes in capitalism makes very little sense from a motivational or rewarding standpoint... Do the people who run the corporations and earn, say, just a million dollars every year, does anyone actually think that those people work 20 times harder than a school teacher who earns 50,000 dollars a year? Well, I don't.

Which means most people in a free market economy would tend to work harder than communistic ones, and get more work done and have a much larger economy.
Hmm, reality doesn't entirely agree with that... If you look at the Soviet Union, their economy had very high growth rates for a long period of time.
http://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/government/economics/statistics/growth-rates.htm
In fact, higher growth rates than USA. Despite the devastation of World War 2 being much harsher in Eastern Europe compared to Western Europe and the Marshall help Western Europe got from USA (which lost pretty much no infrastructure or civillians in the war), the GDP of USSR had grown from 20% of USA's GDP when Lenin established it, to 30% of USA's GDP when it collapsed.
Why? Because capitalism also has its downsides compared to socialism...
First of all, capitalism is chaotic and doesn't really look into the future. People just do whatever profits them now, profit does not automatically equal what is in the interest of people or what is good in the future. Take for example the fossil fuels, which have been most efficient for many years, only very recently wind turbines have become more efficient than fossil fuels for electric production in USA... The corporations had little incentive to invest in those for a long time. Instead, in a planned economy, the government can take this look into the future and see that fossil fuels will deplete and cause environmental troubles, so it can focus on developing the clean energy sources instead of going into this blind alley.
Some other cases when profits doesn't equate to the interests of people, take advertisements. This is pure capitalist propaganda and only serves to convince people to buy more items they don't need. I would be in favor of an information database where people could look up products which have been judged objectively, if anything.
http://www.wpp.com/wpp/press/press/default.htm?guid={23ebd8df-51a5-4a1d-b139-576d711e77ac}
It is estimated that globally, we spend 467 billion USD on advertising... How is this really improving the life of anybody or solving any problems? It is a complete waste, and so is the production of candy, alcohol, guns and tobacco. Those who work to produce this are only harming society, because of profits.

In a communist economy, no matter how hard you work, you never get more than the guy who worked very little.
So I assume I already responded to this?

If people were not greedy, then communism would be the way to go, but not all of us want to work for the good of the nation, and so this is where a free market also gets better points as you can work for yourself and benefit the economy. Maybe in the future a system similar to communism may be the way, but for the present and near future, a free market economy is the way to go.
(This is repeting what you said earlier, I think)

While I admit a free market economy has its problems, it promotes advances, discoveries, efficiency, innovation, and a hard working population.
Those are some very broad and nice words, efficiency - definitely not if human wellbeing is what you want your economy centered around. Hard-working - yes, you can hardly promote working hard more than you can by letting people starve to death if they don't, but socialism can do this too, not just capitalism, and in many cases, capitalism fails to do this because it doesn't provide the jobs. In most cases, however, people don't slack off even if they have the option, though, this is simply a myth...
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Penge/2012/05/23/094051.htm
151,000 people in Denmark earn less than 340 USD more than they could get from the public, in some cases even less than they could get from the public. But only 14,000 out of those are unemployed.

Yes some people are poor, but hey if they won't work then let them live there, or if they can't find a job then they should keep looking and find a way to climb out of the hole.
What is the real problem is the lack of jobs. Some libertarians like to yell "go get a job" at all the poor, unemployed people, but that's pretty hard if there isn't any...

In short, I don't think a free market economy (or communism) is the best economic system possible, I think it is the best as of now and the near future.
And in short, I don't. :P

And this isn't an attempt to bash you, I'm only interested in discussing.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 12:48:55 PM by Bla »

atomic7732

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Re: Politics
« Reply #162 on: August 02, 2012, 01:45:54 PM »



Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #163 on: August 24, 2012, 01:23:16 PM »
This is interesting, very sad and deeply wrong.

http://monthlyreview.org/2012/07/01/the-gdp-illusion

"Most of the world’s coffee is grown on small family farms, providing employment worldwide to 25 million coffee-farmers and their families, while two U.S. and two European firms (Sara Lee, Kraft, Nestlé, and Procter & Gamble) dominate the global coffee trade. Those who cultivate and harvest the coffee receive less than 2 percent of its final retail price."

"In common with other global commodities, the portion of the price of a cup of coffee that is counted as value added within the coffee-drinking countries has steadily risen over time—in the United Kingdom, to take the most spectacular example, between 1975 and 1989 coffee’s import price averaged 43 percent of the retail price; between 2000 and 2009 the average was just 14 percent."

"A study published by the Asian Development Bank (ADB) in 2010 reported on Apple’s latest product, revealing an even more spectacular mark up. “iPhones were introduced to the U.S. market in 2007 to large fanfare, selling an estimated 3 million units in the United States in 2007, 5.3 million in 2008, and 11.3 million in 2009.” The total manufacturing cost of each iPhone was $178.96 and sold for $500, yielding a gross profit of 64 percent to be shared between entities such as Apple, its distributors, and the U.S. government, all of which appears as “value added” generated within the United States."

"Despite ranking as, size-for-size, the world’s most productive nation, virtually the only productive activity taking place in Bermuda is the production of cocktails in beach bars and the provision of other high-end tourist services.31 Meanwhile, 1,600 kilometers south-by-southwest of Bermuda lies another island nation, the Dominican Republic, where 154,000 workers toil for a pittance in fifty-seven export processing zones, producing shoes and clothing mainly for the North American market.32 Its GDP, on a per capita basis, is just 8 percent of Bermuda’s when measured in PPP (purchasing power parity) dollars, or 3 percent at market exchange rates; in 2007 it languished ninety-seven places below Bermuda in the CIA World Factbook’s global league table of per capita GDP. Yet which country, Bermuda or the Dominican Republic, makes a greater contribution to global wealth?"



The article doesn't just point out how overrated GDP is, it also reveals ridiculous examples from the capitalist system. Monopolization killing competition, wage sizes having not a shread of relation to actual work, and how stupid it is that gigantic economic organizations, whose leaders have never been democratically elected or taken the slightest step to be influenced by the people they enslave, have huge amounts of power to exploit and oppress workers all over the planet...

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #164 on: August 24, 2012, 03:44:44 PM »
wtf


smjjames

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Re: Politics
« Reply #166 on: August 25, 2012, 01:07:02 PM »
Yeah, the whole Super-PAC thing is favoring rich contributors and theres the problem of transparency.

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #167 on: September 08, 2012, 07:34:10 AM »
Uhh, how is yelling the loudest "voting", and how the pony did they detemine that 2/3 were in favor of this.

Democrats have to Vote three times to recognize God and Jerusalem

http://www.atheistrev.com/2012/09/democratic-party-inserts-god-language.html
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 07:39:27 AM by Bla »

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #168 on: September 08, 2012, 07:37:24 AM »
^

smjjames

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Re: Politics
« Reply #169 on: September 08, 2012, 07:40:32 AM »
^
^
Even the CNN commentators said it seemed more like half and half.

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Re: Politics
« Reply #170 on: November 06, 2012, 09:40:00 AM »
Kol.

No bourgeois supports Romney
05th November 2012 23:38 Politics

There is no support from the Danish right wing to the American right wing in the U.S. presidential election.

Not one of the right-wing parties in Denmark openly supports the Republican candidate, Mitt Romney, Politiken writes on Tuesday.

- I simply think that Barack Obama has done an incomprehensibly bad job as president, but I'm not sure that Romney is the alternative, Søren Pind, foreign affairs spokesman for Venstre, tells Politiken. His own chairman, Lars Løkke Rasmussen, has declared his support for the current president.

DF is indifferent
Despite an official party contact with the Republicans, the Conservative People's Party will not openly support Mitt Romney.

- There are things that Republicans do not stand for that we stand for, environmental and climate policy for example. There we conservatives will agree with the Democrats, foreign affairs spokesman Per Stig Møller told Politiken.

Danish People's Party is indifferent to the outcome of the elections, says foreign affairs spokesman Søren Espersen.

- My main issue as a Danish politician is: Does it have any significance for Denmark or NATO, which of the two is sitting in the White House? The answer is no. Therefore, I am literally completely indifferent.

Neither or ...
Liberal Alliance, which, like the Republicans, speaks for lower tax rates, has no totally partisan position either. Foreign relations spokesperson Mette Bock declines both Mitt Romney's "deeply conservative values" and the significant debt that Barack Obama is responsible for.

The very low bourgeous enthusiasm for Mitt Romney is close to the general attitudes, Politiken writes.

In a Megafon opinion poll, 84 percent of Danes said that they would vote for President Obama if they could. Only 4 percent support the Massachusetts governor.

Source: http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Politik/2012/11/05/232701.htm

smjjames

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Re: Politics
« Reply #171 on: November 06, 2012, 10:08:20 AM »
I thank our Danish friends for supporting Obama. Good to see that your right wing at least has some sense.

Anyways, already went and voted myself.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #172 on: November 06, 2012, 04:16:14 PM »
kol danishmend
anyway my schl conducted some mock election thing today (knew dick r/money would win the second i saw the thing)
45 r/money
8 obama
7 gary johnson
1 jill stein

blotz

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Re: Politics
« Reply #173 on: November 06, 2012, 04:17:34 PM »
inb4 you voted for jill stein

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #174 on: November 06, 2012, 04:24:27 PM »

blotz

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Re: Politics
« Reply #175 on: November 06, 2012, 04:48:48 PM »
jill has a stain.

FiahOwl

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Re: Politics
« Reply #176 on: November 06, 2012, 05:08:48 PM »

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blotz

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Re: Politics
« Reply #177 on: November 06, 2012, 06:05:16 PM »
wuts the difference between electoral votes and votes?

FiahOwl

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Re: Politics
« Reply #178 on: November 06, 2012, 06:32:55 PM »

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smjjames

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Re: Politics
« Reply #179 on: November 06, 2012, 06:35:33 PM »
electoral votes are the votes that count; votes are the popular votes and stuff.

It's really the popular vote that should count, but its the way the system works.