Author Topic: Global Warming (Read 152663 times)

atomic7732 · « **on:** March 19, 2010, 11:53:48 PM »

I am just wondering what your point of view is on Global Warming. It's happening, no doubt about that, but what do you say causes it or other things.

My point of view is exactly summed up in this quote from DrStrange on Broadband dslreports forums, weather section -

Quote

Part of it is the unusual solar minimum. Part of it is the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. Part of it is El NiÃ±o/La NiÃ±a. Part of it is the Arctic Oscillation and North Atlantic Oscillation. Part of it is increased CO2 in the atmosphere [resulting from human activity]. Part of it is increased methane in the atmosphere [resulting both directly and indirectly from human activity].

There are several factors working to cool the climate. There are several more working to warm it up. Even so, what warms global climate in general may cool a certain part of the world and vice versa. Part of what's happening is natural variation. Part of what's happening is man-made. The man-made variation is becoming increasingly dominant.

Think of a 200-car freight. It takes a very long time to get it started, but it is actually started and it's picking up speed. Get that freight going fast enough and unless you know how to apply the brakes, you're not going to stop it. Climate change is like a 2,000,000-car freight that took 300 years to get up to 10mph and about 50 more years to hit 25mph. The problem is we're sitting on the tracks in front of it and we don't have anywhere to go to get out of the way.

I really don't like that this issue is politicized. The country [and the rest of the world] needs less Hamilton vs. Jefferson and more Jean-Jacques Rousseau. We have a planet-wide problem and we need to act as a planet-wide community to fix it. At this point, we need to think about adapting to and/or mitigating the change rather than preventing it, because it's been happening around us for at least the last 50 years which we've had our heads in the sand.

Bla · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:32:47 AM »

I Think it's wrong to mix the global warming with Natural causes, because Natural causes would happen much slower than it's doing today. I Think that trying to blame it on Natural causes or even denying it is an attempt to escape from Reality and responseability. I agree Natural causes can contribute, but I don't believe they would be measureable over 50 years or so.

atomic7732 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:27:10 AM »

I don't know, in that article was also explaining about the solar minimum of the 70's and what that did... And the solar cycle is 11 years long, and things can happen fast. So, here with someone that most likely belive in all the weird things quantum physics and stuff you have heard about, doen't think that nature can do contribute measurably over 50 years?

deoxy99 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:51:08 AM »

Global Warning is said to not ever happen as of now. I watched a truthful video about Global Warming.

Bla · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2010, 10:35:02 AM »

Hmm. The solar cycle is the only thing I Think can change nature that fast, naturally. But since it's oscillating, so it goes up and down, and it has always been doing it, I don't think it is so serious.

I think the reasons are not only CO₂. But when we are already increasing the temperature, it will begin to increase itself; the methane, a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO₂, is released into the atmosphere when it's "storages" are destroyed/melting/whatever.
The white ice, which is effective for reflecting the heat, are melting, becoming dark blue ocean, which is good at absorbing the heat and increasing the temperature even further.
We build black roads, and we destroy plants and forests, both directly and from the sulphur we are releasing, and have released in the past.

Of course, if changes couldn't happen over 50 years, they couldn't happen at all. Small changes over short time lead to large changes over long time, like in evolution. But I don't Think the global temperature can change like it has done more than... I don't know! Something small.

atomic7732 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2010, 11:47:33 AM »

You know what I hate about things like this? People can't decide what is causing it, and forget to slow it just in case it is us!

I remember there is that chart video... The If it's true, if it's not, and if we act, if we don't and then chose the best of the one you can control.

Bla · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2010, 11:53:10 AM »

And even if global warming was natural, we should still stop it, because global warming wouldn't be beneficial to us, since there would be less space for agriculture (I think), the sea level would rise and damage many places, and the weather would become more extreme and so on.

atomic7732 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:02:45 PM »

Quote from: Bla on March 20, 2010, 11:53:10 AM

we should still stop it

No. Not possible.

Bla · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:05:48 PM »

It would be possible, if we just used the methods we use today. Increase amounts of reflective molecules, decrease amounts of absorbing molecules. That's also pretty much all we can do. And then to generate less internal heat here on Earth, from electricity for example.

But it isn't natural, so anyways...

atomic7732 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:07:53 PM »

Slow, bu not stop

Bla · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:11:32 PM »

That depends on the source. If the source is more CO₂, from natural sources, we can plant plants, and if we're evil kill some animals.

Nah, I wasn't serious... About the first. The second is so much more funny.
Ok, I'll stop being evil now. I didn't mean it... Even though people are a renewable source. Stop!

Btw, it's your [NeutronStar's] turn in Map War.

deoxy99 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:25:14 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVASFcMwTXk

Bla · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:30:38 PM »

That video is flawed. You can't compare such large time areas to the extremely small time scale that this has happened in, which isn't visible on those large time scales.
They should take a real graph. Then the global warming becomes clear. Look at this:

Also, check out this awesome site Dan linked to in a recent blog post.
The video is also good at picking out examples of cold weather, but just because it snows a single year, it doesn't mean that global warming isn't real. We have to look statistically upon it, and even though the early 2008 was cold in a few countries, but 10 of the last 12 years have been the warmest years measured since 1880.
The temperatures have continued to increase, even during a solar minimum in 2007 to 2009.

deoxy99 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:48:58 PM »

Whatever. I believe it.

Bla · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:50:45 PM »

You believe global warming is false or true?

deoxy99 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2010, 12:53:25 PM »

It's a hoax.

Bla · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2010, 01:14:00 PM »

Okay. Well, I won't force my opinions and Thoughts on you... But I just don't understand why you say

Quote from: deoxy99 on March 20, 2010, 12:48:58 PM

Whatever. I believe it.

instead of considering the evidence I posted.

deoxy99 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2010, 03:36:13 PM »

Sorry, but the video is true.

Naru523 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2010, 08:14:47 PM »

Ofc, this is actually natural...

Map of flooded earth and clouds

deoxy99 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2010, 08:37:37 PM »

If it's a hoax, why make those?

atomic7732 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2010, 08:44:45 PM »

Because it isn't.

deoxy99 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2010, 08:45:10 PM »

Whatever. I believe what I believe.

atomic7732 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:02:58 PM »

You can believe it, but don't declare it's true.

qwew80 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:06:49 PM »

I believe that global warming is not a hoax.

I know for a fact that global warming can also have the opposite effect on our environment; it can bring winds and air currents to cool down and sometimes even freeze ceartain areas.

deoxy99 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:09:03 PM »

Oh yeah! So it's not a hoax. It can cool down or heat up. But the trend is going down a little bit.

atomic7732 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:11:35 PM »

Deoxy, That's exactly what I was trying to explain about the ocsillations.

deoxy99 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2010, 09:15:05 PM »

It's called a conversation. That was a good conversation.

Bla · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:47:54 AM »

Qwew80, are you sure it works? I Think that when the cool winds reach the warmer areas you're speaking of, the molecules just transfer their kinetic energy, which means the warmer area get's cooler - but the cooler wind also get's warmer.
Since it's global warming, the total amount of heat should also increase on Earth. That should slowly be tranfered to most systems, and even though some sea streams, air currents etc. can change, it should still cause the Earth to get warmer. If the Golf stream broke, Europe would get colder, but the warm water must just go somewhere else and heat somewhere else, it can't just disappear.

atomic7732 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2010, 08:44:02 AM »

Exactly. Global warming is why we aren't getting as cold as in the solar minimum of 1970's. Weatehr is really weird right now because, I would probably say all these oscillatisions are at they point that they are getting the US hit hard right now. They are all out of sync, but it just so happens right now, the waves are all in line. Oh! I forgot. Ang global warming!

For my area right now: El Nino Southern + Global Warming = warmer than normal El Nino = more rain!

atomic7732 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2010, 08:38:43 PM »

February 2010: Cool in the U.S. but 6th Warmest Globally

http://www.nnvl.noaa.gov/MediaDetail.php?MediaID=390&MediaTypeID=1

GLOBAL Warming
NOT US Warming!