NationStates Map/Roleplay

[Bla]

Nausikkak? Could do it? It was militaristic and existed long ago so as long as it doesn't collapse due to the war or lose territory on the continent with my/Atomic's/Darvince's nationstates it seems ok imo.

[atomic7732]

^ agree actually

[FiahOwl]

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[Bla]

In Universalis I think you still wanted to be on the same planet as us, that should be the reason.

I vote no portals or any other magic. only blagic blallowed

[atomic7732]

I vote no portals or any other magic. only blagic blallowed

but unicorns

[FiahOwl]

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[Naru523]

I'm in a different universe. period2

[Darvince]

I'm in a different xenosphere. period3.

[Bla]

I'm on the same planet. Komma.

[Hellpotatoe]

I'm on the same planet. Kolmom.

[vh]

kallisto economic system:

-kallisto split up into ~2000 partitions
-all have different communist/socialist economic systems
-they compete with each other
-at the end of a year, a census determines which partitions are happier and have a higher production
-these partitions annex a partition adjacent to them with the lowest happiness and production
-these highly ranked partitions are rewarded in some form
-new partitions are introduced regularly to keep it competitive.
-new partitions are variations of existing economic systems
-hopefully the partitions are small enough that people have a large incentive to work hard.
the only problem i see with this is that the award might enable the highly ranked partitions to stay on top.


(isn't that the problem with communist economies? they can't get people motivated to try? why would try their hardest when they only need to hit their quota. or in the case of research scientists, you can't really demand that they accomplish science in a set period of time, and that lets them decide to not work, or try as hard as they can.)

[Bla]

(isn't that the problem with communist economies?

(Don't confuse communist and socialist economies. Communism hasn't existed on a large scale yet.)

they can't get people motivated to try?

Assuming you mean socialist, depends on the system, from Marxist socialism the principle of "from each according to their ability to each according to their work" works, in other words, you receive payment according to the quantity and quality of your own work. You don't work for free for some parasitic capitalist who extracts surplus value from your work. So if by motivation you mean money, that would exist in socialism.

Communism is the highest stage of socialism, here the principle is (from Marx) "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need", so obviously direct economic reward for yourself can no longer exist as motivation.
You need to see that in the context of the development of productive forces (historical materialism). Communism would probably require either of these, or something else:

1: Change in the human culture, where people who are capable of it are expected to work for the common good. This would be a goal in the socialist stage.

2: The productive forces are developed to such an extent that human work is made completely unneccesary. Obviously motivation to work doesn't matter if we don't need people to work.

why would try their hardest when they only need to hit their quota.

Well "only need to hit their quota" then assumes it's not set so they will have to work their hardest.
In the USSR, there was in fact some competition/emulation of competition, "socialist emulation", where different state enterprises competed to do better than their quota. To do that they often made "counterplans" which were new plans which exceeded the state plans. The rewards could be material and moral (badges/diploma/being publicly known for working hard).

or in the case of research scientists, you can't really demand that they accomplish science in a set period of time, and that lets them decide to not work, or try as hard as they can.

Why can't you demand them to accomplish some goal within a timeframe?

[Darvince]

quantity+quality is a poo idea.

quantity^quality is a better idea.

[vh]

why would try their hardest when they only need to hit their quota.

Well "only need to hit their quota" then assumes it's not set so they will have to work their hardest.
In the USSR, there was in fact some competition/emulation of competition, "socialist emulation", where different state enterprises competed to do better than their quota. To do that they often made "counterplans" which were new plans which exceeded the state plans. The rewards could be material and moral (badges/diploma/being publicly known for working hard).

or in the case of research scientists, you can't really demand that they accomplish science in a set period of time, and that lets them decide to not work, or try as hard as they can.

Why can't you demand them to accomplish some goal within a timeframe?

Because everyone is capable of different amounts of work, if you set one loose quota, some people might have to work hard, while others might find it easy to reach the quote. However, if you set the quota higher, some people might not be able to meet it no matter how hard they try.

I don't think you can make scientists accomplish a goal, perhaps it is more possible in some fields of science rather than others, but can demand a completed theory of everything by 2020 or something like that and expect to complete it? On one hand they might figure it out easily by luck or chance, and then spend the rest of the time doing nothing productive. You could assign someone to monitor them, but that might only give the message that you don't care how hard they work as long as it's done at the deadline. I probably do think that if someone was a assigned to figure out the theory of everything, that in itself would probably be motivation enough, but other jobs might be less motivating/interesting.

[FiahOwl]

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[Bla]

Because everyone is capable of different amounts of work, if you set one loose quota, some people might have to work hard, while others might find it easy to reach the quote.

I don't see how that's any different than in any other system. People have different skills. Well first of all the individual differencies should even out if the production is on a large scale, assuming education and some other factors are geographically even (which should be measureable). But even then communication or inspection between the enterprises and planners isn't banned any more than companies aren't allowed to communicate with the ones they're selling products to in capitalism. You gather statistics on the output, see where productivity is high and low and use the experiences from the productive areas in the unproductive areas.

However, if you set the quota higher, some people might not be able to meet it no matter how hard they try.

Again, you need something to base the quota on. First of all the planned economy is based on human needs, not on what the maximum amount of products you can squeeze out of workers is and then brainwash as many people as possible into buying afterwards. If you don't need to produce more than 2 million shoes in x amount of time, you shrink the shoe production and move workers to other sectors or lower working time in general if workers aren't needed elsewhere to distribute the work as equally as possible.
When the needs are determined, for example by statistics on previous useage, through direct democracy in planning or inquiries/whatever, you distribute the quotas evenly among workers unless you have other factors to take into account. These other factors would have to be backed by evidence like demographics.
This is one way of doing it, there are probably hundreds of other ways to do it. So don't take what I say as the final words on exactly how all planned economies have to be in detail or how they have been.

I don't think you can make scientists accomplish a goal, perhaps it is more possible in some fields of science rather than others, but can demand a completed theory of everything by 2020 or something like that and expect to complete it?

Of course you can't do that. Do you know any system where you can do that?
The problem here seems that the deadline isn't based on anything. To make a deadline you need something to base it on, otherwise it's a bit pointless. Like we so often see in game development, progress in some areas can be hard to predict.

On one hand they might figure it out easily by luck or chance, and then spend the rest of the time doing nothing productive. You could assign someone to monitor them, but that might only give the message that you don't care how hard they work as long as it's done at the deadline. I probably do think that if someone was a assigned to figure out the theory of everything, that in itself would probably be motivation enough, but other jobs might be less motivating/interesting.

If you work on a project you communicate with other people who took part in planning it, and report your work and results. If it's finished you start working on something else.

[Darvince]

usforum: making communism efficient since 2010

[vh]

 

Do you know any system where you can do that?

yes:religion; theory of everything in one book.

[vh]

[08:18.37] <+FiahOwl> Ooooooo yqt
[08:18.44] <+FiahOwl> Guess what's I've been turning my nation into
[08:18.53] <+FiahOwl> Take anti-communist 80's red scare USA
[08:19.03] <+FiahOwl> multiply it by red scare^22
[08:19.16] <+FiahOwl> Equals anti communists
[08:19.31] <+FiahOwl> Hourra! Aeridani shall never bleed red!
[08:19.54] <+FiahOwl> The only way we'd go out of our capitalist monarch and become...
[08:20.25] <+FiahOwl> A technocratic socialism ?
[08:20.56] <vh> ok
[08:21.02] <vh> *ban non communist governments
[08:21.33] <+FiahOwl> errrrrr
[08:21.46] <+FiahOwl> that means you are declaring war on me :I
[08:22.18] <vh> lets just call it 'corrective government overhaul'
[08:22.56] <+FiahOwl> I'll launch the nuukz before I have silly Stalin running the parliament
[08:23.11] <vh> no i'll launch the nukes first!
[08:23.23] <vh> can we have a nuclear war between us
[08:23.25] <+FiahOwl> We'll all die! :O
[08:23.29] <vh> nah
[08:23.35] <+FiahOwl> Most of us*
[08:23.41] <vh> yes
[08:23.48] <+FiahOwl> 99% of us*
[08:23.49] <vh> so we reduce both our populations down to 10%
[08:23.53] <vh> ok
[08:23.57] <vh> reduce it down to 1%
[08:23.57] <+FiahOwl> Except the few in the bunkers*
[08:23.58] <vh> thats fine
[08:24.00] <+FiahOwl> Allright
[08:24.11] <vh> ./canonized

ok so aeridani's and kallisto's population is now reduced down to about 10 million.

[FiahOwl]

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[vh]

no you agreed to it is official kthxbai

[FiahOwl]

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[matty406]

Here's some headcanon character bios:
Leaders: http://pastebin.com/B2zrrX6q
a couple of TND army guys: http://pastebin.com/TLawqimu

[FiahOwl]

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[Darvince]

we need moar history between our nashun groups and not be like "loviniosa was isolationist since 11000 BC except for this year"

[atomic7732]

I agree.

[Naru523]

loviniosa is supposedly closely related to kallisto

[vh]

ok should we put them together on the map?

[Hellpotatoe]

And my nations? kol

[FiahOwl]

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