Author Topic: A new users experiences, and a problem with placement. (Read 16015 times)

Aiyen · « **on:** May 03, 2011, 09:03:06 AM »

Hey all.

Just recently became aware of this wonderfull sandbox on steam, and have been playing with it for a few days now.

On the bright side I love how scaleable this sandbox is, it can run on my power gaming rig, and on my little notebook without any problems other then the odd crash when I do something to crazy.
I also love the potential in this sandbox, and as an old astrophysics student I love that the physics seems to work as it should... most of the time.

However! It might just be me, but I find the way you place objects utterly atrocious most of the time. Example.
I want to try to make a grid of moons or stars in a plane, a simple 3x3 to keep it simple.
The first one I can place okay, but after that it just seems totally arbitrary where the next one is placed.. it no longer is placed where the mouse pointer is and the only thing I can control is the altitude over or under the plane! I can of course use the location data to put in manual locations, but this should really not be necessary!

The above is especially ruining when it comes to galaxies, since if I give new locations it just moves the center of mass and leaves all the particles behind!

This general problem seems to be following me whatever I try to make, expect for simple solar systems.

I dont know if it is me missing something, in which case please do tell. But so far it is really ruining my experience with this otherwise wonderfull program!

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2011, 09:47:12 AM »

To get more accurate placement, i pause the simulation and add all my objects, then i change the individual co-ordinates and velocities (and also auto-orbits). For example, for your 9x9 grid, place 9 moons arbitrarily and set there z-coordinates to 0, and there x and y co-ordinates to (0,0) (0,1 AU) (0,2 AU) (1 AU,0).... you get the picture.

I used this to create a binary star system with two suns and a planet sat dead at there centre of mass, and the planet didnt move as the stars orbited around it, so that shows it must be accurately placed!

Hope this helped, if not just reply and i'll try to help if i can!

Josh

Aiyen · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2011, 10:07:46 AM »

Hey josh

I am sorry if I was not clear enough in my previous description! I already succeded in doing this the way you describe. But like I also said, if you try to do this with galaxies, all the particles are not bound to the center of mass, and hence will not move when you change the position of the center.

I am just puzzled as to why using the mouse pointer skrews up so badly in placeing objects. I mean sometimes it even places things far outside the field of view. I can only assume that this is a bug, since it behaves so randomly.

Hope that was a bit more clear, otherwise let me know!
And thanks for your quick response!

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2011, 10:19:22 AM »

Sorry i haven't really used the galaxies yet... I have noticed the thing about placing with the mouse, although i have figured a way around it. For example, if i start a new sim and place a "Sun" and then try to place another "Sun", it will mess up and i cant place it where i want. To get around it, after you've placed your first object, go back to the "Normal Tool", start the simulation ad stop it again, and then place the rest of your objects. That seems to stop the mouse messing up, for me anyway

Let me know if this helps!

Josh

EDIT:

I just realised that you already said you'd placed them with co-ordinates... haha prehaps i should read more carefully in the future! You'll have to forgive me i'm tired

Anyway i hope this post has helped you more than the last!

Aiyen · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2011, 12:14:33 PM »

It seems like your method is working nicely. So I guess we can conclude that there is some sort of bug related to placeing stuff with the mouse pointer.

At least there is a simple workaround!

Thanks for your help.

ChemicalBR0 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2011, 02:55:13 PM »

I was having the same problem earlier today (my 1st day using the sim)

what i found is if you pause it
add a star and select it, then rotate your camera so you are looking directly down on it . then go into the add object tab.
it shows you a target radiating out from your star

then click where you want your bodies and it adds them on that same plane.
for now i've just been clicking auto orbit then tweak the sizes from there.

edit: I just discovered that if you have your camera at an angle (not looking straight down as i said above) then click and hold the left mouse button on the target around the sun, when you move the mouse up or down it changes the angle of the orbit

Dan Dixon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:31:37 PM »

Quote from: Aiyen on May 03, 2011, 09:03:06 AM

The first one I can place okay, but after that it just seems totally arbitrary where the next one is placed.. it no longer is placed where the mouse pointer is and the only thing I can control is the altitude over or under the plane.

While there are a handful of known problems with placement of objects (especially galaxies), it shouldn't be doing this. And I've never experienced this behavior.

Any way you could record a short video of this behavior so I can see it for myself? Even just with a point and shoot camera pointed at the screen? Create a good one and show how the 2nd one is messed up. And hopefully the video will be small enough you can just email it to me.

Fixing and improving Universe Sandbox is all I'm doing for the rest of the year. I'm sorry that it's so frustrating right now.

ChemicalBR0 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2011, 06:25:15 AM »

I experienced this again today.
I also managed to capture a video of it.
at the moment it is 292Mb.
once i compress it down a bit I will upload it to my webspace and post a link.

it seems to happen after running some other simulations then trying to create a new project.
A shutdown/restart of the program fixes the issue for me.

(I had been doing some stuff with binary star systems and LOTS of particles and when i started a new project the placement issue appeared) its not really a big issue for me, as I said a restart returns things to normal on my PC.

the video shows loading my binary system letting it run for a while, starting a new simulation and trying to place a couple of suns, earth and a few jupiters. it has not captured my cursor as it is in a different frame buffer from the simulation window so you can't really see where I'm pointing, but you can clearly see that something isn't right

maybe some data left in memory from the previous simulation being passed into the new?
or does that just apply to agent Smith in the matrix

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2011, 07:30:41 AM »

Quote from: Dan Dixon on May 03, 2011, 04:31:37 PM

While there are a handful of known problems with placement of objects (especially galaxies), it shouldn't be doing this. And I've never experienced this behavior.

Any way you could record a short video of this behavior so I can see it for myself? Even just with a point and shoot camera pointed at the screen? Create a good one and show how the 2nd one is messed up. And hopefully the video will be small enough you can just email it to me.

Fixing and improving Universe Sandbox is all I'm doing for the rest of the year. I'm sorry that it's so frustrating right now.

I get this every time i start a new simulation, the first object places okay and then the next object will just appear huge on the screen as if its offset on the z-axis, unless i use the method stated above. I can record a video if needed, but it seems someone is already doing so. If you would like me to upload one just let me know.

Josh

ChemicalBR0 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:12:22 AM »

Josh I'm not even sure if this is what you are seeing but i'll post the link anyway
http://cid-7a8ecb0c7c5330e9.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/placement.wmv

you can download from the link just above/left of the video so it can be seen a little larger
(it's only 15Mb now)

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:18:06 AM »

Quote from: ChemicalBR0 on May 04, 2011, 08:12:22 AM

Josh I'm not even sure if this is what you are seeing but i'll post the link anyway
http://cid-7a8ecb0c7c5330e9.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/placement.wmv

you can download from the link just above/left of the video so it can be seen a little larger
(it's only 15Mb now)

Yes, thats the same problem as i have, its asif the object hugs the bottom of your view even when you zoom in and out.

ChemicalBR0 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2011, 10:14:33 AM »

Josh I just stumbled on a fix.
if it starts doing it press the spacebar to start/stop the simulation
(i've tried it both ways, with simulation running and not running and spacebar seems to do the trick for me)

let me know if it works for you

cheers
Alan

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2011, 10:19:08 AM »

Quote from: ChemicalBR0 on May 04, 2011, 10:14:33 AM

Josh I just stumbled on a fix.
if it starts doing it press the spacebar to start/stop the simulation
(i've tried it both ways, with simulation running and not running and spacebar seems to do the trick for me)

let me know if it works for you

Yeah thats what i've been using, i think Dan is looking into a real fix, i think thats the best workaround for the time being.

ChemicalBR0 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2011, 10:23:01 AM »

sorry i just re read all your original posts.
wish i'd noticed you saying that earlier

I must stop browsing the net late at night, the old brain gets fuzzy

bojo · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2011, 10:29:58 AM »

I've had similar experiences/bug encounters (depending on your perspective lol).

One thing i've noticed happens a lot, is when I use the hand tool to drag a planet or a star, it immediately jumps to where my camera is placed instead of being able to drag it around. So now i've found my self placing the camera where I want the planet and dragging it to make it jump to more or less the right spot. Then fine tune the placement manually with the number fields.

It is a bit irritating at times, but nothing I can't live with for the time being.

Dan Dixon · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2011, 03:16:33 PM »

Quote from: ChemicalBR0 on May 04, 2011, 08:12:22 AM

Josh I'm not even sure if this is what you are seeing but i'll post the link anyway
http://cid-7a8ecb0c7c5330e9.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/placement.wmv

Thanks for that... It's so helpful to see the problem in action.

I'm not sure if this will be in tomorrow's update, but this definitely needs to be fixed.

ChemicalBR0 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:29:38 PM »

Sweet.
hope it's not too much of a hair puller

ChemicalBR0 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2011, 04:29:03 AM »

just to report back.
the new build seems to have sorted this one out.
thanks Dan.

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2011, 08:19:10 AM »

Not really fixed it for me, seems to have just changed the problem

If i place one star, the second one will just be locked in the same place as the first one, until i click to place it, then it will just place it in a random position. As i keep trying to add stars, it just adds them in a line coming towards the screen. Unpausing/pausing still sorts it out, although that seems to have been altered too :/ I'll post a video when i get the chance.

Josh

Dan Dixon · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2011, 02:52:29 PM »

Quote from: Joshimitsu91 on May 07, 2011, 08:19:10 AM

I'll post a video when i get the chance.

That would be great.

I ran out of time to sort out all of the problems with this issue before the release on Friday, so look for more related bug fixes in the future.

sburke1988 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 10, 2011, 09:34:56 AM »

I was having the exact same problem as Josh last night. I freshly installed the game from Steam, did the beginning tutorials, and decided to try and go right into building a binary system. The program functioned correctly on my first attempt, but I didn't like the placement, etc. and started a new sandbox. From that point on I had problems with star placement exactly as described. Quite frustrating. Despite this, I'm excited to delve deeper into this sim. It seems like a great product!

Dan Dixon · « **Reply #21 on:** May 10, 2011, 12:56:55 PM »

If you still have problems placing a star. Try creating a new simulation or loading the Earth & Moon simulation, then deleting the Earth and the Moon.

Somehow I'm not initializing things correctly, not sure why, but I will eventually solve this problem.

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2011, 04:44:59 PM »

I'll upload a video at some point tommorrow if i can

Raziaar · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2011, 08:33:14 PM »

Argh this is so frustrating. Can't create anything because every time when I place something it works in a completely counterintuitive way compared to how I've seen it done.

Like, I click on my planet or whatever and it just straight goes to the very center of the sun... or starting a new galaxy placing a sun, it doesn't go anywhere near where I clicked.

Frustrating and unplayable with this.

Joshimitsu91 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2011, 09:18:06 AM »

Quote from: Raziaar on May 20, 2011, 08:33:14 PM

Argh this is so frustrating. Can't create anything because every time when I place something it works in a completely counterintuitive way compared to how I've seen it done.

Like, I click on my planet or whatever and it just straight goes to the very center of the sun... or starting a new galaxy placing a sun, it doesn't go anywhere near where I clicked.

Frustrating and unplayable with this.

Simply place your first object, select the Normal Tool, play the simulation, pause it. Then the placement should be fine.

Dan Dixon · « **Reply #25 on:** June 30, 2011, 03:00:24 PM »

This problem has been fixed in the upcoming update. Please let me know if you're still running into any issues.