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Author Topic: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17  (Read 26336 times)

atomic7732

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2011, 11:04:18 AM »
I vote for Kelvin, as default. For science!

How about all three?
I didn't exclude the others. I just said as default. :)

Although I am personally offended by other units. :P
Rankine all the way! *shot*

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2011, 11:42:56 PM »
Also luminosity has no affect at this time, although star temp and luminosity would generally go hand in hand so to speak.

I remember why I hadn't gotten this to work before. It's a hard problem to make all these variables accurately relate to each other. :)

I hope to release another update this week that addresses this issue (so that when you change the temperature (with the diameter locked) it correctly updates the luminosity and mass.

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2011, 12:00:35 AM »
Also luminosity has no affect at this time, although star temp and luminosity would generally go hand in hand so to speak.

I remember why I hadn't gotten this to work before. It's a hard problem to make all these variables accurately relate to each other. :)

I hope to release another update this week that addresses this issue (so that when you change the temperature (with the diameter locked) it correctly updates the luminosity and mass.

But what about non-main sequence stars?

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2011, 12:04:05 AM »
That's a
But what about non-main sequence stars?

Good question.

I'm toying around with allowing the user to set the Mass-Luminosity power value (where 3.5 works for the main sequence stars which are 90% of all stars). But this does feel about bit clunky.

Any thoughts on this or a better way to calculate mass from temperature, luminosity, and/or radius?

What is the Mass-Luminosity law?
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/binaries/masslum.html

The attached image shows my progress (although the Mass-Luminosity power value isn't visible). Any thoughts on how to better represent these options?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 12:11:45 AM by Dan Dixon »

vh

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2011, 03:08:35 AM »
Maybe a seperate box with a ratio and several presets. You would be able to fill in a number or use a drop-down box to select either white dwarf, main sequence, giant, supergiant, and whatever else.

I don't know. It sounds a bit like what you're doing with the "clunky" power value. Would having preset values make it simpler?

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2011, 09:19:41 AM »
use a drop-down box to select either white dwarf, main sequence, giant, supergiant, and whatever else.

I vote this.

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2011, 09:24:27 AM »
Quote from: Wikipedia
    0 hypergiants
    I supergiants
        Ia-0 (hypergiants or extremely luminous supergiants (later addition)), Example: Eta Carinae (spectrum-peculiar)
        Ia (luminous supergiants), Example: Deneb (spectrum is A2Ia)
        Iab (intermediate luminous supergiants) Example: Betelgeuse (spectrum is M2Iab)
        Ib (less luminous supergiants)
    II bright giants
        IIa, Example: β Scuti (HD 173764) (spectrum is G4 IIa)
        IIab Example: HR 8752 (spectrum is G0Iab:)
        IIb, Example: HR 6902 (spectrum is G9 IIb)
    III normal giants
        IIIa, Example: ρ Persei (spectrum is M4 IIIa)
        IIIab Example: δ Reticuli (spectrum is M2 IIIab)
        IIIb, Example: Pollux (spectrum is K2 IIIb)
    IV subgiants
        IVa, Example: ε Reticuli (spectrum is K1-2 IVa-III)
        IVb, Example: HR 672 A (spectrum is G0.5 IVb)
    V main sequence stars (dwarfs)
        Va, Example: AD Leonis (spectrum M4Vae)
        Vab[27]
        Vb, Example: 85 Pegasi A (spectrum G5 Vb)
        "Vz", Example: LH10 : 3102 (spectrum O7 Vz), located in the Large Magellanic Cloud.[28]
    VI subdwarfs. Subdwarfs are generally represented with a prescript of sd or esd (extreme subdwarf) in front of the spectra.
        sd, Example: SSSPM J1930-4311 (spectrum sdM7)
        esd, Example: APMPM J0559-2903 (spectrum esdM7)
    VII (uncommon) white dwarfs. White dwarfs are represented with a prescript wD or WD.




smjjames

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2011, 10:02:27 AM »
Wouldn't having the diameter twice in there make it confusing?

Also, what about including neutron stars/pulsars? Sure they're on the extreme end of the scale (they aren't even on the HR diagram I don't think), but we should include those sometime.

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2011, 06:31:45 PM »
There's the new results from today's efforts (see the screenshot below).

I loaded our Solar System, switched to Chart mode, then set the Sun to have a temperature of 10000 K. Since the mass & luminosity were both locked, this shrunk the visible size of our sun.

The checkbox next to luminosity links mass and luminosity (so uncheck it to change the luminosity without changing the mass).

Also, could there be an option to use Fahrenheit?

I've added the converted Fahrenheit value (from Celsius) for planet surface temperature in the hover tip.

These features will be in the next update 2.1.5.

FiahOwl

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2011, 06:32:29 PM »
There's the new results from today's efforts (see the screenshot below).

I loaded our Solar System, switched to Chart mode, then set the Sun to have a temperature of 10000 K. Since the mass & luminosity were both locked, this shrunk the size star.

The checkbox next to luminosity links mass and luminosity (so uncheck it to change the luminosity without changing the mass).

Also, could there be an option to use Fahrenheit?

I've added the converted Fahrenheit value (from Celsius) for planet surface temperature in the hover tip.

These features will be in the next update 2.1.5.

Wow, you are pumping updates fast.

vh

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2011, 06:41:31 PM »
Making it hotter also turned it blue :)
intended? or did you have the sun blue previously; anyway, pretty cool. Maybe a slider for "Mass-Luminosity power value"

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2011, 06:50:16 PM »
Making it hotter also turned it blue :)
intended? or did you have the sun blue previously; anyway, pretty cool. Maybe a slider for "Mass-Luminosity power value"

Yes. Hot stars are blue. Cool stars are red.
http://www.universetoday.com/24640/color-of-stars/

And the Mass-Luminosity power value will be locked at 3.5 (uncheck to set mass and luminosity on your own). Perhaps in a future version we'll expand this. I don't want to make it too complicated.

smjjames

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2011, 06:56:31 PM »
Yea, its getting complex already, but its complex in a good way since we're doing it steps at a time and the whole thing is interlinked anyways.

@mudkipz: Same thing for fire, a cool (relatively) flame is reddish and a hot flame is blue. Stars and fire are both the same state of matter though, which is plasma.

Also, what about temperature, I thought luminosity and temperature were interlinked?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 07:03:42 PM by smjjames »

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2011, 07:08:04 PM »
Also, what about temperature, I thought luminosity and temperature were interlinked?

Luminosity, Temperature, and size (or radius/diameter) are all linked.

A big cool object can have the same luminosity as a small hot object. Make sense?

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2011, 07:16:39 PM »
I get what you're saying, but I'm not really sure how the whole thing works. I'll just have to play around with the new interlinked values I guess.

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2011, 07:23:08 PM »
The luminosity of an object is determined by how hot (the temperature) an object is and how big it is.

Two stars of the same temperature, but different sizes will have different luminosities.

Two stars of the same size, but different temperatures, will also have different luminosities.

Perhaps this will help:
http://ceres.hsc.edu/homepages/classes/astronomy/spring99/Mathematics/sec20.html

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2011, 07:31:44 PM »
The luminosity of an object is determined by how hot (the temperature) an object is and how big it is.

Two stars of the same temperature, but different sizes will have different luminosities.

Two stars of the same size, but different temperatures, will also have different luminosities.

Perhaps this will help:
http://ceres.hsc.edu/homepages/classes/astronomy/spring99/Mathematics/sec20.html


And what determines the temperature of the star? I get the whole concept here though.

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2011, 07:36:05 PM »
The mass. Very generally... the more massive a star, the higher the temperature.

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2011, 07:42:57 PM »
Yea I'll just have to play around with the new interlinked values.

dhm794

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2011, 08:09:42 PM »
Am I the only one who can't change the Earth's temperature?

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2011, 08:15:28 PM »
Try moving the Earth further or closer to the sun................

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2011, 08:18:47 PM »
I should change that so it's clear it's a non-editable value... the textbox for temperature looks editable, but it's not. It's calculated based on the stars temperature, distance, and the planet's albedo and atmosphere emissivity.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 08:26:02 PM by Dan Dixon »

smjjames

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2011, 08:23:44 PM »
I should change that... the textbox for temperature looks editable, but it's not. It's calculated based on the stars temperature, distance, and the planet's albedo and atmosphere emissivity.

Hrm, if you edit the temperature like you would for anything else, it changes other values connected to it, in this case, distance. So you could set it up that way. Could get complicated by the slider settings though, but I guess you can do it like you did with Luminosity, have a checkbox to lock it so that if you change temp, it doesn't change distance and vice versa.

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2011, 08:29:31 PM »
Hrm, if you edit the temperature like you would for anything else, it changes other values connected to it, in this case, distance...

This becomes very complicated if you have more than one star (as the 2.1.5 update will also calculate the temperature considering all stars in the simulation).

I don't see much value or reason that this value needs to be editable. You can edit the albedo of the planet and the properties of its atmosphere, isn't that enough? :)

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2011, 08:45:23 PM »
Hrm, if you edit the temperature like you would for anything else, it changes other values connected to it, in this case, distance...

This becomes very complicated if you have more than one star (as the 2.1.5 update will also calculate the temperature considering all stars in the simulation).

I don't see much value or reason that this value needs to be editable. You can edit the albedo of the planet and the properties of its atmosphere, isn't that enough? :)

Yea, it would get much too complicated and I was just musing about it.

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2011, 08:47:32 PM »
It's a good question: why isn't the value editable? And if it can be made editable, then it should be. :)

In this case... I think it makes sense that it's the result of other editable parameters.

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2011, 09:00:02 PM »
How about the further the object is away from the sun, it receives less light? (Visually) (and the closer the object is away from the sun, it receives more light?)

smjjames

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2011, 10:00:49 PM »
How about the further the object is away from the sun, it receives less light? (Visually) (and the closer the object is away from the sun, it receives more light?)

The atmosphere feature more or less reflects that, temperature wise. However, I've noticed that the light from the star doesn't fade and there is a sudden cutoff at 100 AU (further out than Pluto), so indead of it just being lit lit lit and bam dark dark dark, it would be a gradual fading. In fact, way out where Pluto is, the sun would be barely distinguisable from other stars.

Dan Dixon

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2011, 01:18:23 AM »
How about the further the object is away from the sun, it receives less light? (Visually) (and the closer the object is away from the sun, it receives more light?)

Yes... better visually representing what the numbers say (like luminosity) is on the list for the next major update due out in 2012.

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Re: Universe Sandbox 2.1.4 Now Available - December 17
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2011, 04:43:24 AM »
still no update for other users  :(