Politics

[unl0cker]

I want to change that indeed, as it is morally wrong. But I'm not going to feed/create/join a movement that indiscriminately  punishes Russian business/nation and tries to manipulate what I like and manipulate how I think. Which is this! Manipulators use valid social causes, not invalid ones.

The anti-antigay movement is a valid one, but it's been used. Just like those chicks back a few months showing their private parts in public. Don't get me wrong... I love tits, but if a women show hers in front of my kids, I'll probably slap some sense in her, literally.

If it is cultural, WE MUST RESPECT! It is part of those peoples history, whether we like it, or not! I find hateful taliban's way to treat woman, I reprehend that, but is their ways, I have no right to try to change a milenar custom.

So if you are a women, and you like to wear pants... I DO NOT RECOMMEND  to live in a taliban ruled area! Move! Same goes to any other nation.

My overhal explanation: If for any reason I find someone hijacking and/or boosting a movement with some hidden agenda behind.. I'll not condone or participate! Period!!!  I'll even go against it. If the cause deserves our respect we should do the right thing about it, but not using the framework of the pretender/abuser/manipulator. Usually the benefits of using a pretender's framework are immensely outweighed by the evil that hides behind. Same goes to this green maniacs. So when Agenda 21 falls upon all of us, only then they'll understand, but by then they will be labeled of horrible things and persecuted under laws they themselves helped to forge.


Like I said, I see the world with very very different eyes from most.


------

Just editing this to be more specific on the issue at hand...

Like I said, if it is cultural, we must respect. This is in NO WAY cultural. It is a new trend, and sure, worth of heavily reprehension. Russians have no cultural background of anti gay agenda. Cultural in my view is something forged over centuries... not decades. The taliban I mentioned above is... it is a milenar custom of that area. The jewish kosher thing also, a cultural thing, and a smart one as probably the main aim was to help people to save themselves from food poisoning thru their kashrut.

I think like every rule, mine also has it's pitfalls. So if I find some indians in the middle of the amazon killing people and eating them for cultural purposes, fck it, I'll drawn my 9mm and blast him before he can say "yummy in my tummy". So there are limits for everything. The gay issue in Russia, in my view is well inside those limits.

[Bla]

If it is cultural, WE MUST RESPECT! It is part of those peoples history, whether we like it, or not! I find hateful taliban's way to treat woman, I reprehend that, but is their ways, I have no right to try to change a milenar custom.

I disagree 100%, I don't think something being historical/cultural has one bit of relevance to whether something should be respected, ignored, opposed or not.

So if you are a women, and you like to wear pants... I DO NOT RECOMMEND  to live in a taliban ruled area! Move! Same goes to any other nation.

If Taliban treats women as sub-humans, you tell the women to move? I'd say Taliban should move, either to Mars or an unpopulated desert where their crazy and repressive ideas won't repress other people than themselves.

Now that we're at the subject, Taliban used to enforce death penalty against gays by buring people alive. So if you're gay you should simply move away from this repression because the repression is "cultural" or "historical"? I disagree.

To make it easy to see how wrong this idea is in my opinion, would you also ask jews/gays/etc. to move out of Nazi Germany simply IF its ideology had had historical or cultural roots?................ Again I think the answer should clearly be no.

It simply doesn't matter. It's the terrible effects the ideas have on peoples lives that matter. If the effects are bad and repressive, they should be opposed and fought no matter what.

My overhal explanation: If for any reason I find someone hijacking and/or boosting a movement with some hidden agenda behind.. I'll not condone or participate! Period!!!  I'll even go against it. If the cause deserves our respect we should do the right thing about it, but not using the framework of the pretender/abuser/manipulator. Usually the benefits of using a pretender's framework are immensely outweighed by the evil that hides behind. Same goes to this green maniacs. So when Agenda 21 falls upon all of us, only then they'll understand, but by then they will be labeled of horrible things and persecuted under laws they themselves helped to forge.

If I've understood this correctly, you think there's a hidden agenda behind the unofficial minority of the anti-antigay movement which boycots the events in Russia by not importing things from Russia etc.? I don't think there's a hidden agenda behind it. I also get the point that it will only have a small effect and on many people who aren't participating in the antigay activities. It's hard to find effective ways to fight them. But I think the economic effect will be close to unnoticeable and that it's more for visibility for the cause.

Like I said, if it is cultural, we must respect. This is in NO WAY cultural. It is a new trend, and sure, worth of heavily reprehension. Russians have no cultural background of anti gay agenda.

I simply don't see the reasoning for why it matters whether it's cultural. Let us say it was cultural. Is everything we just talked about now no longer a problem to you and deserving of respect?

I think like every rule, mine also has it's pitfalls. So if I find some indians in the middle of the amazon killing people and eating them for cultural purposes, fck it, I'll drawn my 9mm and blast him before he can say "yummy in my tummy". So there are limits for everything. The gay issue in Russia, in my view is well inside those limits.

Ok, I'm glad you admitted that, but if you don't think something being cultural is an excuse for eating children in the Amazon, then why do you think something being cultural is an excuse for any of the things Taliban is doing to women?

Also I think your wording might be a bit misleading, you seemed to stress the words "must" very much in your language. At least it gave me the impression that there weren't exceptions to the rules.

[Darvince]

in brazil there is much more multiculturalism (like 99% of the natives didn't die) that's probably why he believes that.

[Hellpotatoe]

in brazil there is much more multiculturalism (like 99% of the natives didn't die) that's probably why he believes that.

kol lies
a very "good" parcel of the natives were killed
you dont even know
hue

[atomic7732]

A lot of them were probably raped as well.

[matty406]

A lot of them were probably raped as well.

[unl0cker]

If Taliban treats women as sub-humans, you tell the women to move? I'd say Taliban should move, either to Mars or an unpopulated desert where their crazy and repressive ideas won't repress other people than themselves.

Now that we're at the subject, Taliban used to enforce death penalty against gays by buring people alive. So if you're gay you should simply move away from this repression because the repression is "cultural" or "historical"? I disagree.

hahahaha you made me laugh a lot now... mars lol.. yeah send them to mars! Put obama and brzezinski in the trunk b4 it goes. sorry SORRY! Not funny! :| srly now...

To make it easy to see how wrong this idea is in my opinion, would you also ask jews/gays/etc. to move out of Nazi Germany simply IF its ideology had had historical or cultural roots?................ Again I think the answer should clearly be no.

It simply doesn't matter. It's the terrible effects the ideas have on peoples lives that matter. If the effects are bad and repressive, they should be opposed and fought no matter what.

Yes, I mean NO! See u got me wrong. We need to understand what are the roots of what. Nazism is merely a eugenic system of cleansing, design to clean an area of a target people. It is not cultural in ANY way. That's all it was. See the angle thing in play here?! Everybody bashes the Nazis, but no one stop filling gas at a Texaco gas station. See the correlation? You got read read read read read, it's what makes you wise.

You know, there are limits to the wisdom one can acquire only by relying on life experiences. We must read. And most importantly, we must not forget. The world is a complex place, and it was forged over thousands of years, not in some decades. I usually tell people that WE are the very very same people as the peoples that lived in Moses times. The only thing that changed from then to now are the toys we use. People do not change, only the toys do.

About the taliban, things like these can and will seam bizarre to us, but not to them that live their entire lives under those social rules. Example. When I was very young, bout 15 or so, I saw on tv a doc about some custom of peoples of an area of the mideast. Was about cutting the girls clitoris, at very young ages. That horrified me. What barbarians I tough at the time. I keep the classification, what barbarians indeed. But I see it now with other eyes. I remember that the girl was surrounded by older ladies, all very exited and smiling, because this was their custom for a girl to become a woman. They liked! Why? Cuz is part of their culture. Same with jews and their obnoxious religious ways of cutting the foreskin of their penises. The kid with the penis on the table might not like it a bit, but it will come an age where he will understand the ways and accept, and do the same to his kids. It's a cultural thing, and as I see it, we must respect.

We can't make this the perfect world you envision, we also can't put all the peoples under one "roof". You mentioned the jews for instance, they too do that! Once a friend of mine that is jewish went to the promised land to spend some time with his relatives, for the first time may I add, they almost lynch him and his gf, why? Simply because she was walking in front of him on the street. It is their ways. These are among the most old people walking on this earth, aside from the male dominance thing,which btw I believe it is, must be another practical reason for that. These taliban people are mega moralists, it's what they are. Absolute NO tolerance for anything out of their "common" morals. Steal? Die. Homosexual? Die. Woman on pants? Beaten. Taking drugs? Beaten. Selling Drugs? Die. It's like Hammurabi of the late eon. I'll not get involved in it, unless these people are prisoners of their land, like Cubans are, like the peoples of the Gaza strip are, like N. Korean peoples are. If you imprison someone in a land, and force your rule over them, that's it. Game over and I'll voice against it. If you keep the right to come n go, and if it is a cultural thing, I'll not put my finger on it.

I agree, it is mega radical, and I'm not ready for it. I would NEVER live under such harsh laws. If I had the power or chance to change it, or move to another area. I'd move. I have no right to dispute something that is at least 1000 yrs older (maybe more) then myself and is accepted as standards by the vast majority of peoples of that area. Horrible? yes! Have I the right to put my finger on it? No.

If I've understood this correctly, you think there's a hidden agenda behind the unofficial minority of the anti-antigay movement which boycots the events in Russia by not importing things from Russia etc.? I don't think there's a hidden agenda behind it. I also get the point that it will only have a small effect and on many people who aren't participating in the antigay activities. It's hard to find effective ways to fight them. But I think the economic effect will be close to unnoticeable and that it's more for visibility for the cause.

No you got it wrong. What I meant is, the are a scourge of people that hijack movements, like the tea party one for instance. Once that trend arises, they hijack it and use for their own purposes, and very usually that purpose is not beneficial for the cause that was hijacked. I have absolutely  nothing against gays, specially male ones, as they seem more fine tunned to everything than their female counterparts. They are extremely creative, have a mega quick wip, probably the development of this thick skin is because of the on going social recrimination. Usually, they are in many  many ways better than the average macho man closed minded.

Learn this, people that are in control, and that's usually ppl from the bank houses, don't enjoy popular movements of ANY sort outside of their control. They always hijack it to take something out of it. Always. I can enumerate hundreds of  examples to you (pls don't make me, I beg of u )

I simply don't see the reasoning for why it matters whether it's cultural. Let us say it was cultural. Is everything we just talked about now no longer a problem to you and deserving of respect?

No! Me too I don't see it. But MUST BE A REASON. I'm 40, how bout you? 25? Even if we were 110. These cultural  ideas are as organic as they come, and developed over thousands of years. Must be a reason!

For many many years, before we met knowledge, I bet many jews ask themselves why pork meat is not good. Or why one should never eat a bread that was not baked that same day. And that was the LAW! Just because we don't see the implications of some actions, don't mean they are not there. I differentiated cultural things because they most of the time are organic and carry hundreds if not thousand of years of tryouts. This above is just a silly example. Another one, the taliban/woman thing. There must be a reason for that. A real one, and just because we can't see it, it really doesn't mean is not there. One must go there, live there, under those laws to try to grasp what up with it. And even after that is not guarantee that we will.

Also I think your wording might be a bit misleading, you seemed to stress the words "must" very much in your language. At least it gave me the impression that there weren't exceptions to the rules.

Aside from the fact that my english is rusty and crappy, as many know, I'm radical in my ideas. I over think most of the stuff that people usually agree or disagree over the top of their heads. I like to think about stuff and try to see it from all the angles I can. So, when you over think something you usually have way stronger opinions than the others. Thus.. I must use must. Yes, there are! That's usually where common sense comes in.

Have you ever played COD? If so... WE ARE BEING DOMINATED! TAKE THOSE POSITIONS! People need to stop dividing  themselves. Back, white, homo, macho, jew, muslin etc. None of it matters right now. NONE! It matters, but not NOW. What it matters now is this: do you own a bank? Ok... divide those based on the answer. That matters! It is THE  ONLY thing right now that does. People keep fighting themselves over these pitiful ideals, and silly things (dont put words in my piehole, I'm talking about other meaningless things that are here, now)  Do not! Respect the customs of the land you are over, and mind with the question I've presented.

After that is dealt with, ok now as equals, we can deal with those issues. We will NEVER EVER find any common ground in any issue while we are being dominated and manipulated by the blue blooded creatures. \

Fuck social darwinism. Thats against evolution of the race itself. Woves do it because they can't think. We can. We don't need this social darwinism that was presented to us as the only way.

[unl0cker]

in brazil there is much more multiculturalism (like 99% of the natives didn't die) that's probably why he believes that.

Are you calling me an indian in a pejorative way? hmmm

Despite you being wrong about this... 99% of them did die, yes, as the us, we are a continental country, but differently from the us, we did not see all our land conquered and occupied. The english went from east to the pacific, radically changing the landscape of the land. Here, I think the thick jungles of the northwest and the harsh deserts of the north provided some "security" to local customs. So our nation is way less homogenic than the us is. We all speak one language, aside from some small amount of people of the very south of the country, close to Uruguay, that speak one of the two native langs, but the areas of Brazil have radical different customs. The north being way more "talibanic" in its ways, and the south being more european.

[atomic7732]

A lot of them were probably raped as well.

just facts ???????

[Darvince]

I thought like in latin america there was much more rape than in northern america therefore boom mestizo???

[atomic7732]

we are talking about latin america yes

[Bla]

To make it easy to see how wrong this idea is in my opinion, would you also ask jews/gays/etc. to move out of Nazi Germany simply IF its ideology had had historical or cultural roots?................ Again I think the answer should clearly be no.

It simply doesn't matter. It's the terrible effects the ideas have on peoples lives that matter. If the effects are bad and repressive, they should be opposed and fought no matter what.

Yes, I mean NO! See u got me wrong. We need to understand what are the roots of what. Nazism is merely a eugenic system of cleansing, design to clean an area of a target people. It is not cultural in ANY way. That's all it was. See the angle thing in play here?!

No, I don't see the point. Now you're saying, because Nazism isn't a cultural thing, so it doesn't deserve respect. If cutting parts of your limbs can be a cultural thing why can't exterminating certain groups of people be a cultural thing? The only difference is that cutting people up is worse than cutting parts of their limbs off without their permission.

Then you go on to say

These taliban people are mega moralists, it's what they are. Absolute NO tolerance for anything out of their "common" morals. Steal? Die. Homosexual? Die. Woman on pants? Beaten. Taking drugs? Beaten. Selling Drugs? Die. It's like Hammurabi of the late eon. I'll not get involved in it, unless these people are prisoners of their land, like Cubans are, like the peoples of the Gaza strip are, like N. Korean peoples are. If you imprison someone in a land, and force your rule over them, that's it. Game over and I'll voice against it. If you keep the right to come n go, and if it is a cultural thing, I'll not put my finger on it.

Sorry, but isn't that very incoherent? Taliban kills gays, but because the gays can just move and it's a cultural thing, you don't put a finger on it. Nazis kill gays, but because it's not a cultural thing, you don't accept it. What kind of reasoning is that? Gays always have some possibilities of moving if they just hide who they are, but who wants to move away from everyone they know and have to flee from everything they own to live a non-repressed life? To me, the answer is obviously to destroy the repression, not to flee from it. Nobody has the right to negatively affect your life simply because you are gay, nowhere, for no reason.

If your culture is antigay, the only acceptable option is to keep it to yourself. Repress yourself if you want to, but not others. Moving isn't a sensible solution to this. Not everyone can just travel in an airplane to whatever country they like and settle there. Most people rely on their parents/family until a certain age and to them it's no option to move either. I'm 19 and have lived in Denmark all my life, and while many people call Denmark one of the most tolerant places on Earth, what I have seen here I would call a disgrace and I definitely have not enjoyed the past several years of my life living in this shitty place. But in all those years I haven't been able to move and there's probably no really better place to move to anyway other than a big city, and I also plan to do that. But if Taliban had ruled Denmark, should I be forced to repress the fact that I'm gay until I can move, and then maybe have to give up my education, abandon where I live and maybe items I can't transport, give up a possible job, all friends I might have had, etc., just to respect their culture? No, their "culture" simply has no place in this world.

Everybody bashes the Nazis, but no one stop filling gas at a Texaco gas station. See the correlation?

I don't think I see your point here.

About the taliban, things like these can and will seam bizarre to us, but not to them that live their entire lives under those social rules. Example. When I was very young, bout 15 or so, I saw on tv a doc about some custom of peoples of an area of the mideast. Was about cutting the girls clitoris, at very young ages. That horrified me. What barbarians I tough at the time. I keep the classification, what barbarians indeed. But I see it now with other eyes. I remember that the girl was surrounded by older ladies, all very exited and smiling, because this was their custom for a girl to become a woman. They liked! Why? Cuz is part of their culture. Same with jews and their obnoxious religious ways of cutting the foreskin of their penises. The kid with the penis on the table might not like it a bit, but it will come an age where he will understand the ways and accept, and do the same to his kids. It's a cultural thing, and as I see it, we must respect.

How do you know he will understand it and accept it one day? What if he doesn't want to be a part of the culture? He will never be able to grow the skin back, not even by moving away. Will all the gays living in Afghanistan also one day come to realize that the best thing is to allow Taliban to execute them?

We can't make this the perfect world you envision,

We can make the world completely as we like, if enough people want a better world of course we can make a better world.

we also can't put all the peoples under one "roof". You mentioned the jews for instance, they too do that! Once a friend of mine that is jewish went to the promised land to spend some time with his relatives, for the first time may I add, they almost lynch him and his gf, why? Simply because she was walking in front of him on the street.

I mentioned the jews because I don't think it's ok to exterminate them. That doesn't mean I think all jewish cultures are perfect. I can be both against a nazi wanting to exterminate jews and against allowing people to circumcise people against their will.

These are among the most old people walking on this earth, aside from the male dominance thing,which btw I believe it is, must be another practical reason for that.

Yes, let's look at the practical reasons of culture. Then we can judge whether they are good or bad. Does the well-being of people benefit from a culture or is it harmed by the culture. If it benefits from it, the culture is useful, if not, let's get rid of the culture. It's really simple.

I agree, it is mega radical, and I'm not ready for it. I would NEVER live under such harsh laws.

But what if you were born in there and had no money, car, airplane service etc.? Or you maybe had some of it, but you also had good friends or liked your family? Or you were in the middle of an education? Or you were a child/teen and you couldn't move? You make it sound like moving away is just something you do overnight and then all your problems disappear. For many it's not impossible, but I'd say it would be much better to liberate them from the oppression rather than fleeing from it.

If I had the power or chance to change it, or move to another area. I'd move. I have no right to dispute something that is at least 1000 yrs older (maybe more) then myself and is accepted as standards by the vast majority of peoples of that area. Horrible? yes! Have I the right to put my finger on it? No.

Culture does't have to be old. Many music cultures are only a few decades old or less for example. Those cultures also clearly show that the culture may not necessarily be dominant among people. There are some religious sects, like Jehova's witnesses, in Denmark, whose families are so attached to this tiny community that they stop all communication with family members who want to exit the sect. That is a culture which the vast majority of people don't accept as standards, but which still affects some people.
You simply state as a fact that you don't have the right to dispute a culture, how do you arrive at that conclusion? It is simply beyond me. You still give absolutely no reason why it being a culture or it being old is a valid reason to respect it. I already gave examples which I would think makes it clear why it's not a valid reason, but your only response to them seems to be either - "it's not a culture, therefore it doesn't deserve respect" or "it's a culture, so you must respect it, even though it sounds horrible and I have nothing against gays etc. etc. etc". You actually seem to understand that elements of culture can be very horrible, but simply ignore this fact and respect it anyway without supporting it with any form of reasoning.

Learn this, people that are in control, and that's usually ppl from the bank houses, don't enjoy popular movements of ANY sort outside of their control. They always hijack it to take something out of it. Always. I can enumerate hundreds of  examples to you (pls don't make me, I beg of u )

I just don't see what banks hijacking movements has to do with this.

No! Me too I don't see it. But MUST BE A REASON.

I don't really know what to reply to this. You see no reason, but say there must be one. How do you know that? We will get nowhere in our discussion if you don't use reasons to justify what you think. You say you like to view everything from different angles, ok, but doesn't that completely contradict accepting that culture must be respected as an unquestionable dogma which requires no reason?

I'm 40, how bout you? 25? Even if we were 110. These cultural  ideas are as organic as they come, and developed over thousands of years. Must be a reason!

I'm 19, the rest I already replied to above.

For many many years, before we met knowledge, I bet many jews ask themselves why pork meat is not good. Or why one should never eat a bread that was not baked that same day. And that was the LAW! Just because we don't see the implications of some actions, don't mean they are not there.

But the reason why you shouldn't eat old bread is because dangerous bacteria or sponges may grow on it. Not because "culture says so" or "the law says so". If the law/culture tells you to jump off a cliff, you shouldn't do it, because it'll kill you, and you don't want that. Culture is irrelevant in all of your examples.

I differentiated cultural things because they most of the time are organic and carry hundreds if not thousand of years of tryouts. This above is just a silly example. Another one, the taliban/woman thing. There must be a reason for that. A real one, and just because we can't see it, it really doesn't mean is not there.

*Sigh* ok please listen. No matter how many times you repeat it, it will never be justified simply because it's culture or old.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic
The basic problem is that you judge where the ideas/laws come from, not what they [/b]are[/b].
If someone believed the Earth was flat 3000 years ago and the ideas spread to cover all of humanity up until today, the person is still just as wrong as if it were the only person to ever get that idea. It simply does not matter where the ideas come from, how long they've been around, etc.

One must go there, live there, under those laws to try to grasp what up with it. And even after that is not guarantee that we will.

I can grasp what it is like having to repress your feelings every day and to see everyone around you fear and distance themselves from your feelings constantly. In practice I would've obeyed many of the religious ideas I oppose, and I oppose them so much exactly because I can see how much they can ruin your life.
There is a good reason why you may never grap the reason to live under them - because there is simply no good reason to live by them.

Also I think your wording might be a bit misleading, you seemed to stress the words "must" very much in your language. At least it gave me the impression that there weren't exceptions to the rules.

Aside from the fact that my english is rusty and crappy, as many know, I'm radical in my ideas. I over think most of the stuff that people usually agree or disagree over the top of their heads. I like to think about stuff and try to see it from all the angles I can. So, when you over think something you usually have way stronger opinions than the others. Thus.. I must use must. Yes, there are! That's usually where common sense comes in.

I'm also radical and disagree on many issues with most people, but I see no need to use the word "must" when I don't mean it. If you don't mean "must" I don't think you should use it. I have the impression that your English is fine and I think you understood the meaning of the word before you used it. Anyway whatever.

Have you ever played COD? If so... WE ARE BEING DOMINATED! TAKE THOSE POSITIONS! People need to stop dividing  themselves. Back, white, homo, macho, jew, muslin etc. None of it matters right now. NONE! It matters, but not NOW. What it matters now is this: do you own a bank? Ok... divide those based on the answer. That matters! It is THE  ONLY thing right now that does. People keep fighting themselves over these pitiful ideals, and silly things (dont put words in my piehole, I'm talking about other meaningless things that are here, now)  Do not! Respect the customs of the land you are over, and mind with the question I've presented.

Never respect the customs of the land if the land's customs don't respect you. If the land's customs tells you to die if you're gay, then tell the land's customs to die.

[Feldruam]

Paradise or Oblivion

The Venus Project-Resource Based Economy

The Money Masters ~ Full Movie

Zeitgeist Addendum

ZEITGEIST 3 - MOVING FORWARD (FULL - 2011)

We need to acknowledge that there's a problem but focus on a solution.
 
"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."-Albert Einstein

[matty406]

A lot of them were probably raped as well.

just facts ?

No i know it was just a bit sudden

[unl0cker]

Well, I guess we never gonna see eye to eye on this, or make sense one to another.

Sorry, but isn't that very incoherent? Taliban kills gays, but because the gays can just move and it's a cultural thing, you don't put a finger on it. Nazis kill gays, but because it's not a cultural thing, you don't accept it. What kind of reasoning is that?

Nazism is after your end. Tabibalism is after their ancient pursuit of a "clean" and "sober" society. As weird as that may seem to us.

I don't think I see your point here.

Communism AND nazism AND fascism, AND all the little tyrants of the South America... all of these were financed and mechanically created by the City of London mainly thru Wall Street. Since Wall Street is Rockefeller owned as Standard Oil was, and subsequently it's child companies, It fair to assume that whomever financed those regims, is also pocketing from Texaco, Exxon, BP, Amoco, Chevron, and so on. People like their gas, but not their regims. That's the correlation.

We can make the world completely as we like, if enough people want a better world of course we can make a better world.

No we can't. And only tyrants got close enough of shaping their world to their see fit. Even like that, Alexander tried, they kill him for it. Cesar tried, they kill him for it, Ramesses2 tried, and geographical difficulties stopped him. Constantine tried, he did not got even close to it, later his "child" the church tried, and also failed.

Now some bankers are trying, they are succeeding so far, mainly because they use the sword as last resort, and as it goes.. you are free. Or that is what one is expected to believe. You are 19, and I feel sorry for you, just as I feel sorry for my young kids. I probably won't see it, but you youngsters will. And I sincerely hope I'm wrong about it, for you all sakes.

I mentioned the jews because I don't think it's ok to exterminate them. That doesn't mean I think all jewish cultures are perfect. I can be both against a nazi wanting to exterminate jews and against allowing people to circumcise people against their will.

You are right! I just mentioned because I saw it as a pertinent thing to mention, as a cultural thing. There is no such thing as this or that. There is this, that, that over there, this on the left, that on the right... and many many more ways. This or that is a dominance technique. You are right...

Yes, let's look at the practical reasons of culture. Then we can judge whether they are good or bad. Does the well-being of people benefit from a culture or is it harmed by the culture. If it benefits from it, the culture is useful, if not, let's get rid of the culture. It's really simple.

Then you can stop bashing talibans. As you don't know IF there is a good cultural reason. As I say, we must live the situation to know. We don't live there, so we can know for sure whats up with that. I know it's crude, but nevertheless, true.

But what if you were born in there and had no money, car, airplane service etc.? Or you maybe had some of it, but you also had good friends or liked your family? Or you were in the middle of an education?

Sorry mate, these are less than 2 centuries commodities. Do as your forefather did. WALK! If I lived under anything that I see fit as oppression.. I'll walk my way out of it. With 0 cent in my pockets. Imagine if Israel "wake" tomorrow and say: "All gaza strip inhabitant are free to go, as long as they go walking", they will. And as fast as one can. I went to live in the US, I was 18, no english knowledge at all, no money, well I got 50 bucks in my pockets, but I wanted to know that place... I went! Will is all it takes. If will moves mountains, why not your legs? I have the barrel of my gun in the back of your head. And I'll give you an ultimate: walk 300 miles, or I'll cut your penis out! Choose! I'm so sure someday you'll have kids.... you'll walk 1000 if it is what it takes.

Culture does't have to be old. Many music cultures are only a few decades old or less for example.

No one will cut ur johnson out because you like Metallica. I think we're talking about sociallly rooted cultures. Like the ones we are discussing.  Anyway, I'm gonna cut this short here, from the root of the argument. I say ancient cultures deserve the proper attention because they carry logically more wisdom. As it was developed thru the eons, they had enough time to try. Most new trends in my view are merely the will of a few, were ancient ones are the will of many many generations. That baggage cannot be underestimated.

You simply state as a fact that you don't have the right to dispute a culture, how do you arrive at that conclusion? It is simply beyond me.

The above I wrote is one thing. Now how can I dispute quantum mechanics, if I see no reasoning in it (and I dont). But I bet you, if I study that to it's bones, I probably will. You cant recognize a cage if you only see the door of it. After you see all 4 angles you'll say, "ahhh ha! it is a cage!"

Cultural is different from say presidential executive order or trendy mechanical movements, because people won't tolerate injustice for long. If it last THAT long, must be a valid reason behind. Either that or the people under it are totally fucktard cowards. That's why culture is different from non-organic ideals.

I just don't see what banks hijacking movements has to do with this.

I see the world today as politics always were: ABSOLUTELY nothing happens by chance. If it does happen, it was planned that way. As the banks own politicians these days, as well as in the older days to a lesser extent, if is allowed to flourish, that was the way it was planned. You can recognize an agenda somewhat easily, as it ALWAYS comes back. Might come back with a different flavor, or name, or masked ideals, but does come back.

I don't really know what to reply to this. You see no reason, but say there must be one. How do you know that?

I don't. So I don't blindly bash it, as I don't know all the angles, causes, history behind that. I'm right over the line here. Not for or against. I too think is horrible and not just. But these are the thoughts of a lay man in the subject. I'll study this to the extent I can!!! Maybe in the future I can give you the reason you seek, or simply tell you I was wrong. Thank you for showing me my ignorance in this particular subject. I won't be ignorant to this for long tho.

But the reason why you shouldn't eat old bread is because dangerous bacteria or sponges may grow on it. Not because "culture says so" or "the law says so".

You do know that now after robert hooke inspired it's understandings. But before, was the will of God. I'd say 100% cultural and religious thing, and to reach those that weren't religious, they made it a law.

I can grasp ...

I don't think you cant. No one can, without studying these things deeply AND I dare say living on their skin. Let me make a religious analogy, and let's pretend all that happened.

Why is the Devil so bad? Alter all, all he apparently wanted is to give man knowledge of himself and his surroundings. How I gaining knowledge can be bad?! Well, apparently he used some valid excuse to avenge his failed relation with his father.

The lesson here is: not all good looking things are good. The oposite being as true as this too.

Take the liberation of woman of the early 20th century as an example. It apear as a good thing, right? The right thing to do. But was not. I explain:

I see men and women as different beings. WE ARE DIFFERENT. Period! We think differently, we ACT differently, we have different hormone driven actions. I can carry rocks weighting about 170 pounds, they can't. They can feed a newborn their God given milk, I can't. WE A-R-E DIFFERENT!

Thus generally speaking we should exert different roles. But, Rockefeller's non-profit orgs (haha)
fiercely sponsored that feminist uprising. Of course, it look like the right thing to do. Honorable, just.

But was not. As I see it, woman have a very very important role in our race. They (generally speaking) should be at home! Making sure the offspring grows  right and just. Don't judge me before you study this please! Cuz I have profoundly. And by "staying" at home I mean, they should be the ones molding the offspring. They woman ARE the glue of the just societies, they are IMAGINABLY more important than men. DO NOT underestimate the "stay at home" frase. It is MUCH more important than going out to make a living. Much more... They woman are the master ring holding a family in place. Men are just an accessory to the family. Woman are the master key of it! They OWN the family. They create the family.

So continuing, they promoved that, woman got out of the house, to work, and may I add to pay taxes, the kids are being educated by the TV, or some school. Don't you think people in the beginning of the last century were better at morals we are today? I do. I think todays people are trash when compared to before. And if you go to these conservative rural areas were the ancestors model is still at play, you'll find that people there are much better than the city people that were risen by something else than mom.

Soon (australia already does that to an extent) the state will OWN your kids. Soon your kids will choose the state over the family.  I;m sorry, but I'm pro family. Family is our race's backbone. Remove it and give welcome to a Equilibrium like society, which is btw what Hitler wanted to accomplish, and he did, with his maniac youth.

Conclusion: The cause was valid, uber valid. Looked just. But in the end, what motivated that liberalism was not, was merely these factions trying to destroy the family's bound and morals (they did), and also trying to tax the other half of the population. They also did.


Again:


WE ARE BEING DOMINATED!!
TAKE THOSE POSITIONS!!!!!!!!



About the "movie" posts:

Zeitgeist is CRAP, Jacque Fresco's ideas are crap too. Now, what Bill said over there, that's real and solid! Of course this is my personal view...

[Bla]

Well, I guess we never gonna see eye to eye on this, or make sense one to another.

Sorry, but isn't that very incoherent? Taliban kills gays, but because the gays can just move and it's a cultural thing, you don't put a finger on it. Nazis kill gays, but because it's not a cultural thing, you don't accept it. What kind of reasoning is that?

Nazism is after your end. Tabibalism is after their ancient pursuit of a "clean" and "sober" society. As weird as that may seem to us.

But Taliban's pursuit of that society involves being after my end. And the reactionary far-right typically seeks a "clean" and "sober" society as well like in "the good old days". The ideologies are similar in that point.
...But what does it even matter when the issue is that they do the exact same thing - kill gays?

We can make the world completely as we like, if enough people want a better world of course we can make a better world.

No we can't. And only tyrants got close enough of shaping their world to their see fit. Even like that, Alexander tried, they kill him for it. Cesar tried, they kill him for it, Ramesses2 tried, and geographical difficulties stopped him. Constantine tried, he did not got even close to it, later his "child" the church tried, and also failed.

I'll state it differently, because we obviously can't make the world completely as we like. We can't magically turn a desert into a rainforest. But if enough people want to change something, it is possible, the French and Russian revolutions are some examples. Even in this issue, the Stonewall riots are another example and the LGBT rights movement are another example and because of this the west on average has much less negative attitudes towards LGBT people than 50 years ago, proving that the world can be changed.
That is the sort of change I want to see happen globally. Many western countries had death penalty laws towards gays hundreds of years ago. This changed. Change is possible.

Then you can stop bashing talibans. As you don't know IF there is a good cultural reason. As I say, we must live the situation to know. We don't live there, so we can know for sure whats up with that. I know it's crude, but nevertheless, true.

Assuming Talibans goal is actually to increase the well-being of humans, they must be claiming that killing gays somehow does that. The burden is on them to come with reason or evidence to support this. Until then, their claim can be dismissed just as you would dismiss someone claiming that they had a garden filled with magic tooth fairies.
At the same time there's nothing that makes it impossible for us to know it just because we don't live like they want us to. We could ask the people who are forced to live like that. We could imagine what it would be like. Imagine what it feels like to be buried alive. How do you imagine it feels? I don't think it feels good, so even though I haven't tried it, I think I can say with very high certainty that it's a very bad way to make people happy.

Sorry mate, these are less than 2 centuries commodities. Do as your forefather did. WALK! If I lived under anything that I see fit as oppression.. I'll walk my way out of it. With 0 cent in my pockets. Imagine if Israel "wake" tomorrow and say: "All gaza strip inhabitant are free to go, as long as they go walking", they will. And as fast as one can. I went to live in the US, I was 18, no english knowledge at all, no money, well I got 50 bucks in my pockets, but I wanted to know that place... I went! Will is all it takes. If will moves mountains, why not your legs?

Family, money, friends, education etc. are 2 centuries commodities... you realize how many of those fleeing Northern Africa for example who end up drowning or in camps which are in semi-prison conditions in Greece or forced to return later.

Also, I didn't intend to say that I live under oppression, I don't. I'm not satisfied with how things are, but I wouldn't call it oppression. But try considering the options. You can stay and ignore how bad things are and accept it even as you state you can't see any reason whatsoever for why things should be that way. You can flee and give up maybe a lot of things, depending on your situation, which could include friends, education etc. You don't have to be in a life-threatening situation to be unsatisfied with how things are, and you have other choices than fleeing or ignoring your problems. I'm trying to say that it will pay off much better for all of us in the future if you choose to deal with the problems and eliminate them so humanity can move on. If some people think gays/jews/etc. should be killed, asking the affected people to respect that or go away is a, sorry to say it, very crazy and strange idea in my opinion. You keep saying we have no right to question their traditions, again, why the... do their traditions then have the right to decide whether innocent people should live or die or flee?...

No one will cut ur johnson out because you like Metallica. I think we're talking about sociallly rooted cultures. Like the ones we are discussing.  Anyway, I'm gonna cut this short here, from the root of the argument. I say ancient cultures deserve the proper attention because they carry logically more wisdom. As it was developed thru the eons, they had enough time to try. Most new trends in my view are merely the will of a few, were ancient ones are the will of many many generations. That baggage cannot be underestimated.

Again you are making the fallacy of considering where something comes from and not its content.
I will again state the example that, at a time most people believed the Earth was flat. It wasn't! Their view was old and traditional and all that but it was plain wrong! It had no good bagage from the generations it had to spread. The same goes for all the superstituion which led to witch hunts (still happens in some places in Africa today), people believing in miracles or gods and rejecting medicine causing people to die, no matter how many generations these stupid ideas are passed on, they will never get one step closer to becoming correct.
Taliban's view on gays is just as morally unacceptable as the flat Earth idea is factually wrong, because threatening and marginalizing gays will negatively affect their lives a lot, for obvious reasons. Are you completely blind to this?

The above I wrote is one thing. Now how can I dispute quantum mechanics, if I see no reasoning in it (and I dont). But I bet you, if I study that to it's bones, I probably will. You cant recognize a cage if you only see the door of it. After you see all 4 angles you'll say, "ahhh ha! it is a cage!"

I have studied Taliban to a degree where I know that they systematically try to discriminate against women by not allowing them to have education and where I know they try to force all people to repress the feelings they may have for people of their own sex for their entire lifetime and where if they don't, they will try to bury them alive. Based on this I conclude that Taliban's ideology is horrible, oppressive, and that the world would be a better place if people were not forced to live by it.

My opinions on Taliban are based on what I know about Taliban, unlike your example dispute on quantum mechanics. There is actual reasoning behind quantum mechanics and experiments like the double-slit experiment supports it. As you say, you can study the subject you dispute. But earlier you said you have to LIVE the way Taliban forces you to in order to question it. Now you are moving the target. You can study and know about things without living under them. Let me use your own example about quantum mechanics, your idea is like saying you can't dispute quantum mechanics without doing all the experiments it's based on first-hand. But that's simply not true, you can study what other people who have done the experiments have experienced and whether there is a logical connection to the claims of quantum mechanics. You can read their papers and maybe you find simple factual errors in their calculations etc. The same way, you can read about Taliban's ideology and consider whether its elements are good or bad, and oppose the bad elements without experiencing them first-hand.

Cultural is different from say presidential executive order or trendy mechanical movements, because people won't tolerate injustice for long. If it last THAT long, must be a valid reason behind. Either that or the people under it are totally fucktard cowards. That's why culture is different from non-organic ideals.

Or the people in control are very much in control or have support from a lot of people who accept oppression (for example if it only affects a minority of the population). Let's see whether North Korea exists in a millennium then you can come back to me and tell me if it wasn't oppressive or people were just being cowards.

If gays are a small minority of the population and get marginalized from early on and indoctrinated into thinking there is something wrong with them which they should be ashamed of, at the same time as those who uphold those ideas patrol every street with swords, don't expect them to organize and raise a revolution in christian dark age Europe, Nazi-Germany or Taliban-Afghanistan. You're not a coward because you don't willingly run into suicide and don't accomplish anything. The exact same thing goes for the European colonial powers' treatment of the natives in Africa, Asia and America. Those were not cowards for the decades or centuries it lasted. While it happened, they just weren't able to stop it, and depending on the size of the oppressed people compared to others and how much they are controlled and indoctrinated into thinking they're wrong, there's no reason why that couldn't possibly last for many more centuries.

Witch-hunts, racial/sexist/antigay discrimination etc. has happened for a long time in many places, in some places people have even managed to overthrow it and get rid of it and in other places it has managed to live on. Europe is one place where we actually got rid of much of the antigay discrimination, people lived under it realized that it was terrible and pointless and managed to get rid of it in the end. This just hasn't happened where Taliban rules - this doesn't automatically mean their oppression is ok, just like it would not be true that the Earth were flat if they had believed in that for centuries while other parts of the world moved on in their thinking, simply because they had lived with those false beliefs for so many centuries. Again you must judge by the contents and not where it comes from!

I don't. So I don't blindly bash it, as I don't know all the angles, causes, history behind that. I'm right over the line here. Not for or against. I too think is horrible and not just. But these are the thoughts of a lay man in the subject. I'll study this to the extent I can!!! Maybe in the future I can give you the reason you seek.

So you imply that I'm blindly bashing it. I would say I know enough to determine that those of Taliban's ideas negatively affect innocent people. And the fact that you fail to see how marginalizing and killing people by burying them alive for following feelings which hurt nobody is actually negatively affecting people is making you seem very blind and amoral to me.

Also, look back at what you wrote - you said there must be a reason, now when I ask you how you know, you say you don't. You contradict yourself. Please make up your mind.

You do know that now after robert hooke inspired it's understandings. But before, was the will of God. I'd say 100% cultural and religious thing.

The thing is just that it's not the valid reason to avoid eating old bread and that eating old bread always carried an increased risk of getting sick, which is the rational reason to avoid it that people have always had access to. You said "just because we don't see the implications of some actions, it doesn't mean they are not there". But we have always had access to the possible implications of eating old bread and based of those we can judge whether eating it might or might not be a good idea. "Because it's an old culture" still isn't the reason here.

[unl0cker]

aarrrrrrrg you are right. Damn site and this cookie short time expiration.

your ARE right. Weeee. I wont write again...

Dammit! $#%@@#$%

[FiahOwl]

This message is only viewable with Universe Sandbox Galaxy Edition. Access it and much more with promo-code '109747'.

[unl0cker]

What pisses me off is that this cookies stays for ages when Im browsing the site... I have to click logoff always to clear it.

To post... the damn thing expires in 15 or so minutes... ahhhhhhhhhhhh

[unl0cker]

Im going to hell for this...


The reality to me is, you all are biased, because is your layer of the society being targeted. It was cool in the 80's no one care... everybody was financially ok (compared to today). How about the suffering of those drug addicts that pay the price so money can be injected in the scam called NYSE? Come on... I don't want to win this discussion, in fact I'd  glad to be proven wrong in many of my statements, what I wished is for you guys to think out of the box!

I see no one defending subhuman condition that the miners of 3rd world countries endure. Or defending the little girls that are kidnaped all over the world to become prostitutes, or even the countries that suffered dearly so americans can have 5 bedroom houses. Why do you think america has the financial uphand over all the other nations? "Maybe" that is because it syphoning riches from all places and concatenating them inside the empire.

Sorry guys, but you have a much narrow view of things.

[Hellpotatoe]

Uhh.. Bla isnt american, in any meaning of the word. Try Denmark.

[FiahOwl]

This message is only viewable with Universe Sandbox Galaxy Edition. Access it and much more with promo-code '109757'.

[FiahOwl]

This message is only viewable with Universe Sandbox Galaxy Edition. Access it and much more with promo-code '109758'.

[unl0cker]

It does not matter, what I say stands. Also, his country has one of the worse globalists that there is.

[unl0cker]

I recommend this to all humans: Ethics of Aristotle

You can get it here.

[Darvince]

I would respond to bla but I'd just get pummeled in soviet anthems and nothing would get done... :|

[Hellpotatoe]

Uhh.. Bla isnt american, in any meaning of the word. Try Denmark.

But that doesn't make him unbiased. Because I'm Japanese am I only half-biased?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

[vh]

[Darvince]

false. H fusing into He is what makes stars shine.

[atomic7732]

Helium also fuses into all elements heavier than it.

I would respond to bla but I'd just get pummeled in soviet anthems and nothing would get done... :|

respond to him but i don't really see anything wrong with anything he's done/said and he's not being all like 'USSR USSR USSR SOVJET DA DA DA' I mean idk, he's presenting legitimate points and refuting the arguments properly????

Or defending the little girls that are kidnaped all over the world to become prostitutes

can I just say how silly this is like do people kidnap girls and make them their slave and then sell their body for money and take it from them like I don't think that happens

I mean like some do it on their own decision because it's a way to make money that they need to live. I don't know the whole world but I've had history classes, they are forced to by society not by a specific person.