Languages of Blacraft

[matty406]

oh deer

[Bla]

Typically, languages tend to be "on the bandwagon". They tend to have nouns, adjectives, and verbs; consonants and vowels; cases, regardless of whether they are marked or not, genders, persons, tenses, aspects...

The fact that the language is "typical" in some way is the defining characteristic of being "on the bandwagon", so isn't it a bit like saying "typically, languages tend to be typical"?

oh deer

I think the language was a fine idea.

[deoxy99]

... Yes.

I am awful at writing arguments or whatever you call them, you know. Maybe you should just ignore them.

[matty406]

oh deer

I think the language was a fine idea.

I just mean all this arguing that's gone off. ._.

[FiahOwl]

This message is only viewable with Universe Sandbox Galaxy Edition. Access it and much more with promo-code '109146'.

[Bla]

Other divisions could also be players, villagers (because they seem similar and able to communicate with players), other conscious (or even living) stuff and the rest.

[deoxy99]

Or just simply not have them.

[Darvince]

if you avoid all bandwagons when creating languages then you will wind up with a language impossible to speak and impossible to use because many languages share similarities because it makes the langauge easier to speak

[Bla]

if you avoid all bandwagons when creating languages then you will wind up with a language impossible to speak and impossible to use because many languages share similarities because it makes the langauge easier to speak

I didn't say you should avoid all bandwagons. I said it's not a rational reason to add a feature.

Making the language easier to speak is an entirely different reason. I doubt dividing words, endings etc. into genders even helps with that, at least I don't see how the complexity it adds to the language helps with anything. Do you think it does?

[vh]

in my opinion, Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka


i speak binary without speaking binary

[Darvince]

nonono it's tügagon

well, bla, say you grouped all elements as "masculine" nouns, and a "masculine" noun ends with -ag when base ends with a consonant and -nag when base ends with a vowel.

goldag
leadag
silverag
aluminiumag
iodinenag

if gendered nouns show what kind of thing a word is, then it makes the language easier. if it's seemingly random (like in spanish) then it makes learning the language harder.

[Bla]

well, bla, say you grouped all elements as "masculine" nouns, and a "masculine" noun ends with -ag when base ends with a consonant and -nag when base ends with a vowel.

goldag
leadag
silverag
aluminiumag
iodinenag

if gendered nouns show what kind of thing a word is, then it makes the language easier. if it's seemingly random (like in spanish) then it makes learning the language harder.

The problem with dividing things into genders should be pretty obvious, genders could tell us information about a person being male or female, things aren't male or female, that's why I don't think you should set up two different categories for lots of words based on random biological differencies. Not because I deny their existence or because I think all languages must have nothing in common.

If you say all elements, kitchenware, tools etc. are masculine and all trees, foods etc. are feminine then the category you put the thing into no longer tells you anything about the item, other than that it belongs to one of several subcategories that have a completely arbitrary connection to the "gender". If you want to make a noun "gender" for elements, you could make it "elements", then it would give you information about it. Your example with Spanish was exactly what I think should be avoided in languages, yet your example with the elements does the exact same thing as what makes Spanish gender nouns illogical - call things with no possible masculine features masculine.

Masculine and feminine are pointless concepts in language when they begin to apply to items, and you might as well use personal pronouns and names based on skin color, hair length, age, etc., or nothing at all. Nothing is what I think is most simple, then you can just say "it is male" if it really is male like "it is blue" about blue things, "it is an element" about elements or "it is painful" about painful things.

[atomic7732]

If I will add a thing that's really not very relevant, nor something that happens in probably any language at all, but a note:
In Salykkolšil, I have made it a rough rule that nouns (so it's not actually declination/conjugation for gender) are generally considered "feminine", that being, similar to a female name (ending with a vowel), and verbs "masculine" (ending with a consonant), although this has many exceptions.

[Bla]

ok i read that

but bla you can design a politically correct language i'll keep my "offensive" language

You seem to drift the argument over and over. Why are you making it an issue over politically correct and offensive now? Did I say Matty's language was offensive or "politically incorrect"? Look back at your response to my original suggestion and tell me who seemed most offended? :l

I don't want to make a language now, I think I'll just stick to suggesting things when I have things to suggest unless people specifically tell me not to come with suggestions for their languages, which was basically all I was doing.

[Hellpotatoe]

Kol people.
You already tried portuguese? The masculine/feminine distinction is far bigger than in english.
Like, english sounds almost neutral in this aspect to me

english: "the ball"/"the balls"
portuguese: "a bola"/"as bolas"/"o bola"/"os bolas"

In english, "a bola" or "o bola" would sound as the same thing! Here, "a bola" is a ''normal ball", while "o bola" sounds more like a nick for a fat guy
Trying to do a language even more neutral sounds like craziness to me! I mean, languages should be more simple and easy to learn and spell, but is the difficulty and variety that gives "a good taste" to them, at least in my vision.

I AM NOT SAYING TO NOT REMOVE THE GENDERS, but yes that, if you remove, you should add bits in other things to give it a more "natural" look.
A "natural look", in this case, would mean a look of a language that passed through a process of evolution, and its full of fails and errors, and unecessary things.

[matty406]

Darv wanted me to start languaging again
So I've translated the first post of this thread:

Blacraft fémé fé süd sütham.
Blacraftr juzen wuda futür.

[Darvince]

bla can you remove the other argument posts and link them in the top of topic 10083

[Bla]

I don't see any reason to, they're relevant to the topic.

[Darvince]

oh god this topic

anyway I've learned why languages have gender now: if it's semantic, it can provide information about the noun. If it's affix-based (like all languages with gender that almost anyone here is familiar with), then it often spreads to other words in the sentence, especially adjectives or determiners that go with the nouns, allowing them to come either before or after the noun. For languages with seemingly random affix-based genders that have nothing to do with the item's perceived characteristics, the speakers don't consciously interpret this as making the item more 'feminine' or 'masculine' or 'common' or 'neuter' or whatever gender distinctions the language has, those are just names given to the noun classes based on their perceived characteristics (usually this follows from any words that have semantic gender) by linguistic analysis of the language.

[atomic7732]

the speakers don't consciously interpret this as making the item more 'feminine' or 'masculine' or 'common' or 'neuter' or whatever gender distinctions the language has

that's not actually true though

i take that back, maybe not conciously, but subconciously - it does affect the way people think in languages with genders that relate to human gender

it would be interesting to see how gender systems with more than 3 classes or non-gender-based classes affect people's thought processes, and even saliency in these systems. for example like human male is more salient than human female and inanimate, or whatever.

noun classes might not really do much since in that case their class isn't really arbitrarily selected

overall they're pretty harmless but they do affect the way people think

[Darvince]

to tanzania/kenya/other swahili speaking places!

Also I have a single sign in Himalian (it's at the bridge from Swmp to Swmpkex on the mainland side)

[atomic7732]

yo también. i have a sign over my house and like a sign by an obelisk in soleani. maybe a few others