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Author Topic: Are white holes exist?  (Read 22275 times)

monmarfori

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Are white holes exist?
« on: July 29, 2009, 11:40:30 PM »
You know white holes form billions of years.

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 11:52:07 PM »
No one knows for sure. So you can't really say that.

Bla

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 02:25:49 AM »
I don't believe in white holes.

My logic tells me that black holes suck in matter, and that matter either stays there, evaporates or in very strange cases comes out, but of the same black hole.
I don't believe in black holes being connected with anything, before I hear any kind of evidence for it.

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 04:27:18 AM »
Well it is very improbable that white holes exist (at least we haven't find one yet). Infact we should see a reduction in their mass, as nothing is created, but transformed.

hbmp88

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 09:10:22 AM »
I always thought the black hole exploded into a white hole. More logical if you compare it with the life cycle of stars. You have to remember the universe is full of patterns, since everywhere the same rules apply.

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2009, 02:15:45 AM »
The problem is that a black hole isn't a star, but the last phase of a very big star ;).

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2009, 11:24:23 AM »
No, he means to relate TO a star's life cycle.  :P ;)

hbmp88

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2009, 10:30:49 PM »
Pressure becomes so strong that nuclear fusion starts again,  needless of hydrogen. SIMPLE AND NO RESEARCH NEEDED. I can't believe how dumb the world's smartest people can be. This could explain the big bang.

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2009, 12:06:31 AM »
I remember one time, they said something and didn't know what caused it, and it was so simple and related to something else I knew, and it's like "Are you idiots?!?!". It was so obvious... Over thinking, over thinking...  :P

なる523

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 12:33:59 AM »
Lol.

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 03:30:05 AM »
Pressure becomes so strong that nuclear fusion starts again,  needless of hydrogen. SIMPLE AND NO RESEARCH NEEDED. I can't believe how dumb the world's smartest people can be. This could explain the big bang.

I don't think that I understood well, but if you are talking of black holes it is wrong, instead, if you are talking of the last phase of a star it is correct :P

Bla

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 03:42:01 AM »
I guess the pressure of a black hole would rather make something like a huge sub-atomic particle rather than molecules?
Something similar to a quark star?

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 05:35:40 AM »
well nobody knows exactly what happens into a black hole, but i suppose that even the subatomic particles are pressed dogheter in a singularity

hbmp88

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2009, 12:22:34 AM »
How else is uranium formed? Our star makes helium, atomic number 2. Black holes are about 100x the sun. Atomic number for uranium is about 100. The more mass the bigger elements are formed by nuclear fusion. They claim that the heavy elements are formed by supernovas, but how do we know that? We can hardly even catch one on video. ???

Dan Dixon

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2009, 12:50:14 AM »
What is a white hole?
"A white hole is the theoretical time reversal of a black hole. While a black hole acts as a vacuum, drawing in any matter that crosses the event horizon, a white hole acts as a source that ejects matter from its event horizon. The sign of the acceleration is invariant under time reversal, so both black and white holes attract matter. The only potential difference between them is in the behavior at the horizon."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_holes

Q&A about white holes
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=108

You know white holes form billions of years.

White holes are a very interesting idea. Where did you get your claim?

My logic tells me that...

Why would your logic be any different than mine? :)

monmarfori

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2009, 01:32:30 AM »
It forms when black hole suddenly collapses. or maybe unknown

It is not existed in our universe.

[Dan - Fixed double post]
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 09:33:51 AM by Dan Dixon »

hbmp88

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2009, 01:39:21 PM »
And won't it collapse if nuclear fusion starts? If it started it would go from vacuum to explosion. This is what nuclear fusion does in a star. The star collects matter and when there is enough it ignites. So why can't this happen with a black hole? It collects so much matter that the explosion overcomes gravity and it shoots out the dense matter in the form of heavy elements. Try to give me a reason not to believe that. ???

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2009, 02:25:10 PM »
How heavy?

Unoctbium heavy? (Element 182)

Or Unbitrium heavy? (123)

Or...

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2009, 03:24:28 PM »
Where did you find that elements?

The heaviest element on the elements table is the Ununoctio (118) (I hope it is the right word because my dictionary doesn't have it)

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2009, 04:26:25 PM »
Ununoctium. It could be Ununoctio in Italian though. ;)

Those would be the names of the elements if there were that many protons in the nuclei of an atom.
Black holes are one of a kind, since the density is infinity (if it is a singularity/if not, then close to that), It should be able to induce fusion like a star. They emit much more energy than a star, in the x and gamma range, there is more energy, and more mass to fuse hydrogen to helium to carbon, and eventually to elements not yet discovered, eventually getting so dense, they collapse (like they can! haha) and implode, expelling any material inside, in (possibly) highly radioactive, dense material.

that goes along with hbmp88's theory.

It's the Black Hole Fusion Density Theory!

Bla

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2009, 02:30:55 AM »
Wait, is there a singularity inside a black hole?
Infinite density means it doesn't fill anything. There's no "close" to infinite density, since everything else would be finite.
Are you sure that it isn't just a very very very extremetly high density, and not a singularity?

I don't understand how anything can be infinite. Infinite small and infinite large perhaps, but nothing that exists should be that.

By the way, hbmp88, since the gravity of the black hole is too big for matter to escape beyond the event horizon, I guess it wouldn't explode. The gravity holds it together, and since light can't escape, nothing can have velocity enough to escape. :)

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2009, 05:49:43 AM »
I think that we need a good explanation of what is a black hole and how it forms...

Let's start from the beginning.

Black holes form from very dense stars, much bigger than our sun. When the hydrogen in the core of a star finishes, the energy become less and the core collapse and become more dense, the pressure rise the temperature again and the elium starts to burn like idrogen before creating carbon. When the elium finishes again, the energy emitted become less and the gravity make the carbon core collapse again, starting a new reaction with the carbon that creates neon. The star then is like an onion with different strates. From hydrogen at the surface to the neon in the core. The process reapeats again neon becomes oxigen, oxigen becomes silicium and silicium becomes iron.
Here start the problems. Unlike the previous elements the fusion of the iron requires more energy than the process creates, so the gravity "win" and the core suffers a final collapse: the outer part of the star explodes and all the elements created are shoot in the space (this elements in the future may form other stars and planets, and maybe life). The core collapses more and more, untill it reaches a critical density, so big than even light can't escape: a black hole is created. All the remaining matter of the star falls into the events' horizon and (probably) become a superdense degenerated matter: the atoms are destroyed, and also neutrons and protons are split into quark up and down. These particles are than pressed into a singularity, a point with no dimentions and with infinite density and heath. This is why can't be a reaction similar to the one into the star core into a black hole. Simply there aren't atoms. By the way even if the reaction was there, the products of it could never escape from the events' horizon. What happens into a black hole cannot influence the universe out of that  border.

If nothing can escape, why the black hole emits radiation like x-ray?

The answer must be found into the quantistic theory. (This is not a part that I know very well, so it could be wrong).

In the vacuum, everywhere in the universe, a couple of particles are created, one of matter and one of antimatter. After an infinitesimal time, they join and annihilate.
But what happens when the particles are created just near an events' horizon? One particle fall into the black hole, and the other escape at the speed of light. That's it. The x-ray emission is not created directly by the black hole, it doesn't come from the singularity. Nothing can escape a black hole.

Please tell me if this part is correct.

Bla

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2009, 06:15:57 AM »
Yes, that sounds right. The photons that are emitted comes from the matter near the black hole and not anything that has ever been inside them.
However, are you sure that it IS a singularity? ???

By the way, I don't think the particles are being created, but perhaps they're being turned into matter from energy, like E=mc^2. :)
Also, I just think all that's needed to create the x-rays and radiation around the black hole is heated matter. Our bodies make infrared radiation because of the temperature. Stars glow red when they have low temperatures, blue when they have high temperatures. So, very warm objects radiate ultraviolet, then x-ray and gamma-radiation, I think.
And I guess the matter around a black hole is very warm?

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2009, 06:37:23 AM »
I think so, as it is compressed (not directly by the black hole but in the accretion disk around it).

I believe that nobody in this world knows exactly if it is a singularity or not, and however it doesn't matter so much because nothing changes out of that strange thing that is a black hole :)

However we will always try to find a solution as life (so humans but not only) is curious ;)

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2009, 09:37:14 AM »
Wait, is there a singularity inside a black hole?
Infinite density means it doesn't fill anything. There's no "close" to infinite density, since everything else would be finite.
Are you sure that it isn't just a very very very extremetly high density, and not a singularity?

I don't understand how anything can be infinite. Infinite small and infinite large perhaps, but nothing that exists should be that.

By the way, hbmp88, since the gravity of the black hole is too big for matter to escape beyond the event horizon, I guess it wouldn't explode. The gravity holds it together, and since light can't escape, nothing can have velocity enough to escape. :)


What I meant was:
Say for example, SOMEHOW, SOMWHERE, a million was infinity (I know it's finite, but, this is just an example), so CLOSE to infinity would be 999,999.
So How about Googol kg/cm3.

If it lost some mass in the explosion, at some point in time (whether it be a yottasecond or a yoctosecond) It would lose density therfore having no even horizon (correct me if im wrong), letting all not in grasp (the expelled particles) escape.

Section II of the Black Hole Fusion Density Theory (above)

Yay! Let's get a theory going! Do you like it, anyone?

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2009, 10:03:04 AM »
What I meant was:
Say for example, SOMEHOW, SOMWHERE, a million was infinity (I know it's finite, but, this is just an example), so CLOSE to infinity would be 999,999.
So How about Googol kg/cm3.

It will be a very very very dense object. So dense that atoms are destroyed and also protons and neutrons, so no elements could be created.

If it lost some mass in the explosion, at some point in time [...]

There will be no explosion, because there isn't any fusion.

[...] It would lose density therefore having no even horizon (correct me if I'm wrong), [...]

It isn't the density that creates the events' horizon. The mass into the Black hole could hold the 99.99% of the volume of the events' horizon, but it could never escape and the black hole will always remain a black hole.

P.s.
Section II of the Black Hole Fusion Density Theory (above)

To be correct it isn't a theory. A theory is an Hypothesis already demonstrated. :)

hbmp88

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2009, 10:09:15 AM »
And what about the heat being created inside the black hole and the heat being sucked in. It can't just sit there forever. If nuclear fusion starts and it makes the heaviest atoms possible for its mass, then where does all the heat go? That would be like ultra-nuclear fusion. I can't imagine how much energy that would be and you are saying it just stays the same. Wouldn't it greatly expand and then collapse when there is enough heat? If all the heat stays in, there has to eventually be so much that it has an effect on the black hole.

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2009, 10:10:34 AM »
If matter can escape, energy can too!

Part of Section II

FGFG

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2009, 11:22:53 AM »
If matter can escape, energy can too!

If matter CANNOT escape, energy CANNOT either!

In the quantistic theory the energy is the interaction between particles driven by other particles (eg. electrons, muons, barions, etc...). These particles cannot travel faster than c and so they cannot exit from the black hole. The heath travel with electromagnetic waves (so with light) and light travel proper at the speed of light and so it cannot exit from the black hole.

We don't know exactly what happens into a black hole, but we are sure that nothing can exit.

It's not me, it is demonstrated that nothing can exit a black hole!

atomic7732

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Re: Are white holes exist?
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2009, 11:29:41 AM »
If matter can escape, energy can too!

If matter CANNOT escape, energy CANNOT either!


Same thing.

Well, it is. YOur just saying it from a different point of wiew.