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This is a part of the Blacraft topic.
Discuss languages of Blacraft here.
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In USAR, "Hi" means "Hi"
In USSR, "Hi" means "You"!
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In Desertopia, "Hi" means "how many tnt can i explode you with"
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In Spheron Rilmu, "Vogesimni" means "Socialist".
Literally? One who is red. :P
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In Spheron Rilmu, "Vogesimni" means "Socialist".
Literally? One who is red. :P
Kol.
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in japanish penisula of squid, "fish" are your mom
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I f I ever finitsh that language I was doing, I'd apply it it to the people who lived in the land years before we did, who made the dungeons, mineshafts and strongholds.
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Here. (http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/Tripian)
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Can I bump this?
I'm bumping this.
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Since I renamed Spheron Rilmu to Socialist State of Spheron, it will now be translated in my language to Vogesimni Rilmu ji Spheron. (I changed Aleb to just be to be, and not of, for, by, which is now ji.)
Long names much? :P
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Wasn't Socialist State of Spheron your state, and Spheron Rilmu your region?
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No... Rilmu means state, not region. Socialist State of Spheron is both the name of the region and the state, thus making it a unitary state (model does not include the newest region). :P
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Union of Socialist Yukidarian Regions.
okay, maybe not.
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kol this thread
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kol this thread
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BUMPIIIIIES
Google doc of my Blacraft Language (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4h_D110XzdCT3I2a2lscEhFMFU/edit), Google doesn't like Open office formats but desktop drive means it'll dynamically update when I change stuff.
Needs some working. I settled on Object-Subject-Verb, later found out there's only one language in the world using it so finding text to get inspiration from will be difficult.
Aiming for an old fashioned, Germanic, medieval sounding language.
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Kol.
The language should reflect the "genderlessness" of Minecraft imo, or in other words, not set up two separate categories for lots of words, names and endings based on some random biological differencies which are completely irrelevant in most cases.
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oh god bla
sex is a thing you freaking %$&* you frustrate me
babies can be born from females
babies can not be born from males
that is an established difference that you cannot ignore and current technology CANNOT cause males to give birth
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Nonono people calm down here Bla is making the point that sex and gender does not exist in minecraft.
Also he's probably pushing the point that I should make my language less binary.
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yes but a lot of gendered languages exist
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I'll probably keep the genders but have them prioritise neutrality then
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in the end it's matty's choice and nothing bla does will or should change that
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Wow ok sorry about proposing it.
oh god bla
sex is a thing you freaking %$&* you frustrate me
babies can be born from females
babies can not be born from males
that is an established difference that you cannot ignore and current technology CANNOT cause males to give birth
I'm just saying there's no reason to base a language on it. The logic is the same as in, there are people with different hair colors. I don't deny the fact that people can have different hair colors, I just don't think it's relevant to base a lot of things in a language on it, because it makes the language unnecessarily complicated. If that frustrates you, it's not my fault.
yes but a lot of gendered languages exist
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
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Wow ok sorry about proposing it.
oh god bla
sex is a thing you freaking %$&* you frustrate me
babies can be born from females
babies can not be born from males
that is an established difference that you cannot ignore and current technology CANNOT cause males to give birth
I'm just saying there's no reason to base a language on it. The logic is the same as in, there are people with different hair colors. I don't deny the fact that people can have different hair colors, I just don't think it's relevant to base a lot of things in a language on it, because it makes the language unnecessarily complicated. If that frustrates you, it's not my fault.
yes but a lot of gendered languages exist
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
I feel that the genders in languages are not literal genders, but more like categories of words. We just need to figure out another way of stating the names of these categories, instead of using "feminine," "neuter," and "masculine."
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yes but a lot of gendered languages exist
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
This is not a logical fallacy if matty's goal is to make a more naturalistic language.
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yes but a lot of gendered languages exist
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
This is not a logical fallacy if matty's goal is to make a more naturalistic language.
In what sense do you mean gendered languages are more naturalistic?
Has Matty written that he wanted to make that?
To reply about the bandwagon, if "yes but a lot of gendered languages exist" is meant as a reason for why this language should also be gendered, then it is a bandwagon fallacy whether Darvince or Matty uses it. If Matty says "I'll make a gendered language because it's more naturalistic" then that's no longer the same reason as what I quoted from Darvince, unless you by "naturalistic" mean "share this property with a lot of other languages", in which case the logical fallacy applies again.
Again, I don't intend to "force" Matty to design his language in any special way, he can make it completely as he wants, I assume it doesn't hurt anyone that I point out things to consider. I'm not sure why my suggestions seemed to upset some people.
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Typically, languages tend to be "on the bandwagon". They tend to have nouns, adjectives, and verbs; consonants and vowels; cases, regardless of whether they are marked or not, genders, persons, tenses, aspects...
You can't make a language that has none of those things (if that were the case, the language would be completely null.) They will tend to share similarities somewhere. However, you can exclude a lot of them, such as the pointless genders, to make it less like [insert language here], leading to a more unique language.
Not sure what my point here is actually...
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oh deer
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Typically, languages tend to be "on the bandwagon". They tend to have nouns, adjectives, and verbs; consonants and vowels; cases, regardless of whether they are marked or not, genders, persons, tenses, aspects...
The fact that the language is "typical" in some way is the defining characteristic of being "on the bandwagon", so isn't it a bit like saying "typically, languages tend to be typical"?
oh deer
I think the language was a fine idea.
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... Yes.
I am awful at writing arguments or whatever you call them, you know. Maybe you should just ignore them. :P
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oh deer
I think the language was a fine idea.
I just mean all this arguing that's gone off. ._.
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Other divisions could also be players, villagers (because they seem similar and able to communicate with players), other conscious (or even living) stuff and the rest.
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Or just simply not have them.
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if you avoid all bandwagons when creating languages then you will wind up with a language impossible to speak and impossible to use because many languages share similarities because it makes the langauge easier to speak
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if you avoid all bandwagons when creating languages then you will wind up with a language impossible to speak and impossible to use because many languages share similarities because it makes the langauge easier to speak
I didn't say you should avoid all bandwagons. I said it's not a rational reason to add a feature.
Making the language easier to speak is an entirely different reason. I doubt dividing words, endings etc. into genders even helps with that, at least I don't see how the complexity it adds to the language helps with anything. Do you think it does?
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in my opinion, Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Kolkaka Tugagon Tugagon Kolkaka Tugagon Kolkaka
i speak binary without speaking binary
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nonono it's tügagon
well, bla, say you grouped all elements as "masculine" nouns, and a "masculine" noun ends with -ag when base ends with a consonant and -nag when base ends with a vowel.
goldag
leadag
silverag
aluminiumag
iodinenag
if gendered nouns show what kind of thing a word is, then it makes the language easier. if it's seemingly random (like in spanish) then it makes learning the language harder.
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well, bla, say you grouped all elements as "masculine" nouns, and a "masculine" noun ends with -ag when base ends with a consonant and -nag when base ends with a vowel.
goldag
leadag
silverag
aluminiumag
iodinenag
if gendered nouns show what kind of thing a word is, then it makes the language easier. if it's seemingly random (like in spanish) then it makes learning the language harder.
The problem with dividing things into genders should be pretty obvious, genders could tell us information about a person being male or female, things aren't male or female, that's why I don't think you should set up two different categories for lots of words based on random biological differencies. Not because I deny their existence or because I think all languages must have nothing in common.
If you say all elements, kitchenware, tools etc. are masculine and all trees, foods etc. are feminine then the category you put the thing into no longer tells you anything about the item, other than that it belongs to one of several subcategories that have a completely arbitrary connection to the "gender". If you want to make a noun "gender" for elements, you could make it "elements", then it would give you information about it. Your example with Spanish was exactly what I think should be avoided in languages, yet your example with the elements does the exact same thing as what makes Spanish gender nouns illogical - call things with no possible masculine features masculine.
Masculine and feminine are pointless concepts in language when they begin to apply to items, and you might as well use personal pronouns and names based on skin color, hair length, age, etc., or nothing at all. Nothing is what I think is most simple, then you can just say "it is male" if it really is male like "it is blue" about blue things, "it is an element" about elements or "it is painful" about painful things.
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If I will add a thing that's really not very relevant, nor something that happens in probably any language at all, but a note:
In Salykkolšil, I have made it a rough rule that nouns (so it's not actually declination/conjugation for gender) are generally considered "feminine", that being, similar to a female name (ending with a vowel), and verbs "masculine" (ending with a consonant), although this has many exceptions.
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ok i read that
but bla you can design a politically correct language i'll keep my "offensive" language >:(
You seem to drift the argument over and over. Why are you making it an issue over politically correct and offensive now? Did I say Matty's language was offensive or "politically incorrect"? Look back at your response to my original suggestion and tell me who seemed most offended? :l
I don't want to make a language now, I think I'll just stick to suggesting things when I have things to suggest unless people specifically tell me not to come with suggestions for their languages, which was basically all I was doing.
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Kol people.
You already tried portuguese? The masculine/feminine distinction is far bigger than in english.
Like, english sounds almost neutral in this aspect to me
english: "the ball"/"the balls"
portuguese: "a bola"/"as bolas"/"o bola"/"os bolas"
In english, "a bola" or "o bola" would sound as the same thing! Here, "a bola" is a ''normal ball", while "o bola" sounds more like a nick for a fat guy
Trying to do a language even more neutral sounds like craziness to me! I mean, languages should be more simple and easy to learn and spell, but is the difficulty and variety that gives "a good taste" to them, at least in my vision.
I AM NOT SAYING TO NOT REMOVE THE GENDERS, but yes that, if you remove, you should add bits in other things to give it a more "natural" look.
A "natural look", in this case, would mean a look of a language that passed through a process of evolution, and its full of fails and errors, and unecessary things.
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Darv wanted me to start languaging again
So I've translated the first post of this thread:
Blacraft fémé fé süd sütham.
Blacraftr juzen wuda futür.
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bla can you remove the other argument posts and link them in the top of topic 10083
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I don't see any reason to, they're relevant to the topic.
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oh god this topic
anyway I've learned why languages have gender now: if it's semantic, it can provide information about the noun. If it's affix-based (like all languages with gender that almost anyone here is familiar with), then it often spreads to other words in the sentence, especially adjectives or determiners that go with the nouns, allowing them to come either before or after the noun. For languages with seemingly random affix-based genders that have nothing to do with the item's perceived characteristics, the speakers don't consciously interpret this as making the item more 'feminine' or 'masculine' or 'common' or 'neuter' or whatever gender distinctions the language has, those are just names given to the noun classes based on their perceived characteristics (usually this follows from any words that have semantic gender) by linguistic analysis of the language.
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the speakers don't consciously interpret this as making the item more 'feminine' or 'masculine' or 'common' or 'neuter' or whatever gender distinctions the language has
that's not actually true though
i take that back, maybe not conciously, but subconciously - it does affect the way people think in languages with genders that relate to human gender
it would be interesting to see how gender systems with more than 3 classes or non-gender-based classes affect people's thought processes, and even saliency in these systems. for example like human male is more salient than human female and inanimate, or whatever.
noun classes might not really do much since in that case their class isn't really arbitrarily selected
overall they're pretty harmless but they do affect the way people think
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to tanzania/kenya/other swahili speaking places!
Also I have a single sign in Himalian (it's at the bridge from Swmp to Swmpkex on the mainland side)
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yo también. i have a sign over my house and like a sign by an obelisk in soleani. maybe a few others