Universe Sandbox
General Category => Everything Else => Topic started by: Yqt1001 on September 22, 2013, 09:11:15 AM
-
It's back! As I promised, 4 months after the last edition, the contest will start in October. First I want to discuss rule changes and some other things. For now I only request that if you're interested in participating, post in this thread so I can keep track of who is interested. ;D
-
I'll take interest, even though I didn't participate last round (which was mostly because of my absence).
-
second :( (post)
-
Yes.
-
[12:31] == YE [~chatzilla@ip70-180-214-180.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #wiki-hurricanes
-
es
-
-
Wyverncliff has already had a NF. It would be silly if I said no to the contest :P
-
Yes, interested. I've been trying to keep track of the songs I wanted to enter in my head for a long time. :P
-
bam
-
I am of interesante
-
inb4 this is only font >20 thread
anyways songs done
-
Preparing for the actual thing, got the scoreboard pretty much done. Sorta rushed unfortunately but I simply don't have as much time as I would like. I used Eurovision 2007 to test it out:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/mqtninv216pq33a/univisiontest1.png)
First voter of the night:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/0kxfeqe13zrd2kc/univisiontest2.png)
Last voter:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lkb6is6zqm5d3fn/univisiontest3.png)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/7i0l5ud04lcf0q1/univisiontest4.png)
Would be nicer if I had the actual flags but oh well.
The irl scoreboard and voting. (http://tinyurl.com/pqlxpxn)
-
kol yqt
-
darv you should music
-
what ok
-
woo!
unless yqt decides to like start it on the weekend before
-
Time to go over some of the first rule changes: Rule changes are bolded.
SONGS:
- A song can not have been sent in previous editions of the contest.
- Songs must be a maximum of roughly 5 minutes. I'll accept a few seconds over, but not minutes over.
- Joke entries are allowed, but try to keep it somewhat serious. I don't want a 5 minute loop of a 30 second meme. Also try to avoid very vulgar songs.
- The song must be a Youtube video.
- If there is copyright issues, another version of the song may be found. ***If the song has been submitted, anyone who gets copyright issues will not be required to listen to it.***
- ***There is a 34 song max that are allowed to enter, it is first come first serve.***
SENDING SONGS:
- Up to 3 songs can be entered per user.
- Songs must be sent in private message to me, Yqt1001.
"If the song has been submitted, anyone who gets copyright issues will not be required to listen to it" I told people to do this last edition anyways for one of tuto's songs (because blocked in other countries). Should be clear now though.
"There is a 34 song maximum that are allowed to enter, it is first come first serve." I unfortunately have no choice but to limit the number of entries. I was able to get it up to 34 so 11 people can easily fit in. Only 10 people confirmed in this thread so far anyways, we might be able to expect shmoopy and swonx to return though. If the limit is too restrictive, I will consider maybe doing some kind of semi-final system for next edition if necessary. Then again, we only had 28 entries last time around.
Other possible rule changes that could be implemented for popular demand:
- Instead of a 5 minute limit per song, we could have a 15 minute limit for all entries combined, still a max of 3 songs though.
Opinions?
-
k
so are you starting on the weekend or oct 1
-
Note on videos that may be blocked: If you're using chrome, an app called ProxMate can quickly and easily put you through a proxy that you can view blocked youtube vids through
-
is it this one?
http://goo.gl/6CYZ6r (http://goo.gl/6CYZ6r)
called "Stealthy"
tried to search for proxmate but didn't work
-
- Instead of a 5 minute limit per song, we could have a 15 minute limit for all entries combined, still a max of 3 songs though.
I think the 15 minute total limit would be better.
-
sure
-
- Instead of a 5 minute limit per song, we could have a 15 minute limit for all entries combined, still a max of 3 songs though.
I think the 15 minute total limit would be better.
That's silly. I don't speak for everyone, but I know that if there is a song that is longer than 5 minutes,or even somewhat close to that I lose interest. I'm just saying that if you guys are all supportive of that, I will get bored of your song and I have a feeling that some other people will too.
-
- Instead of a 5 minute limit per song, we could have a 15 minute limit for all entries combined, still a max of 3 songs though.
I think the 15 minute total limit would be better.
That's silly. I don't speak for everyone, but I know that if there is a song that is longer than 5 minutes,or even somewhat close to that I lose interest. I'm just saying that if you guys are all supportive of that, I will get bored of your song and I have a feeling that some other people will too.
I agree with TMC
-
I firmly declare interest even though I am somewhat confident that I am incapable of being interested in anything.
-
I firmly declare interest even though I am somewhat confident that I am incapable of being interested in anything.
You are contradicting your own statement... makes sense. :P
-
I declare official interest, not actual interest
-
I think the 5 minute limit per song is better.
If more than 34 songs are submitted, maybe you could say (some) people were only allowed to submit their two best songs. If that sounds more fair than 11 getting to submit 3 songs and the rest not being able to submit any.
-
I declare official interest, not actual interest
Is there really a point in taking up some of the 34 songs that other people who are actually interested could be using?
If more than 34 songs are submitted, maybe you could say (some) people were only allowed to submit their two best songs. If that sounds more fair than 11 getting to submit 3 songs and the rest not being able to submit any.
We could limit people to 2 songs once we hit 26 or 28 songs.
-
But if the people begin by submitting 3 songs, they'll only hit 24, 27 or 30 songs. Otherwise a better idea I think.
-
- Instead of a 5 minute limit per song, we could have a 15 minute limit for all entries combined, still a max of 3 songs though.
I think the 15 minute total limit would be better.
That's silly. I don't speak for everyone, but I know that if there is a song that is longer than 5 minutes,or even somewhat close to that I lose interest. I'm just saying that if you guys are all supportive of that, I will get bored of your song and I have a feeling that some other people will too.
I agree too.
-
The probability that I agree with not allowing 15 minute songs is above 50%, I think, I probably agree to not allowing it Mondays-Fridays and then I'm for allowing it on weekends. Until dinner on Sundays that is. Probably should be banned yes. Too long.
-
well if you're keeping track of stuff, i have 3 songs that are about 12.5 minutes total
-
But if the people begin by submitting 3 songs, they'll only hit 24, 27 or 30 songs. Otherwise a better idea I think.
I will probably just do a recommendation that you only send 2 songs if you are that late (one of the last couple people to enter). If you're that late you probably aren't super interested in the first place.
As far as the 15 minute total vs. 5 minutes per song, I agree with TMC that it would be too boring. Then again, that shouldn't be a rule ("No boring songs"), it would just be a suggestion for doing better in the contest.
-
but what do you mean no boring songs? how would you find out until the end of the song?
-
but what do you mean no boring songs? how would you find out until the end of the song?
I'm just saying people either wouldn't listen until the end of a 15 minute song or they would get distracted and forget most of it. No matter how interesting it is, 5 minute+ songs just never seem to end and makes it really forgettable. So I'm just saying, we could implement the 15 minute total rule and have it as a suggestion that songs be less then 5 minutes long in order to do decent in the contest.
-
How about 10 minute max for a single song and a recommendation to make it less than 5 minutes?
-
How about 10 minute max for a single song and a recommendation to make it less than 5 minutes?
Seems unnecessarily arbitrary. As much as I need some rules I really wish I could take out most and have the contest super simple. I think I'll just stick with the current 5 minute max per song for this edition, we can discuss this again later.
-
care to explain why there is a limit as to maximum songs?
-
care to explain why there is a limit as to maximum songs?
34 songs at 5 minutes per is 3 hours. Could you imagine any longer? 34 also conveniently works with the scoreboard, which is why it was increased from the initial 30 to 34.
If it is a problem though, 34 songs is more than enough to implement a 2 semi-final system with 17 songs each and 10 qualifiers for a 20 song final. A system which could realistically go up to 50 songs. Something to keep in mind for next edition if necessary.
I'd be a bit surprised if we hit 34 songs though, especially since we had 28 in the last edition.
-
well I am pretty much incapable of being interested in anything other than interserver so yeah.
-
Time for some more rule change revealing:
PARTICIPATING COUNTRIES:
- You can only enter one country into the contest, you can send multiple songs.
- Countries must be on the Official USF map (located here (http://universesandbox.com/forum/index.php/topic,7618.0.html)) to be eligible to participate.
- Every country that enters must send one to three songs, they must also vote.
- ***The country does not need to be yours, however you need permission from the owner to send it to Univision.***
JOINING UNIVISION:
- Your participation must be confirmed, either along with your songs or beforehand.
- If your country is debuting, I will need your flag.
- The flag sizes I need are 165x110 and 40x25. I can do the resizing if necessary.
The flags are necessary for the scoreboard (and will be required even if you arent debuting this edition).
Now the "***The country does not need to be yours, however you need permission from the owner to send it to Univision.***" I'm not so sure about. If a member of the community is interested and is able to get someone's secondary country I have no issues with them taking it to Univision personally.
-
idk having to resize flags might put people off
-
idk having to resize flags might put people off
I am open to doing it myself however if you do it yourself then you will be happy with how it turns out. I don't like having all the detail on flags into a tiny 40x25 icon so I am likely to crop out parts of it.
The 40x25 icon for Aahrus' flag is only the top half of it.
-
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/888365/NS/Ethanthova%20small.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/888365/NS/Ethanthova%20smaller.png)
I'm in
-
Nice to see very little trouble with that potential rule change. Although really, very few people are likely to use it, but its better to have it in place.
Anyways - I want to redo jury voting but I have no idea what would work for the best
JURY MEMBERS:
- No confirmation is needed beforehand, simply listen to the songs and submit your votes to me (same voting rules apply).
- ***More rules go here based on what we decide below:****
Alright so I have literally no idea what you guys want. It is possible to get 20 jury voters (based on how much recruitment TMC and I do), and I really don't want significantly more jury votes than actual participants. 6 from last edition seemed to work well enough, so I'd like to limit it to 7 or so actual cast jury votes.
The only reasonable way I can do this is by merging peoples votes together if they are similar (similar biggest 3 votes).
However if you guys have any better ideas, please tell me.
-
- The flag sizes I need are 165x110 and 40x25. I can do the resizing if necessary.
...
That ratio may or may not match the ratio of Tutono's flag. And if not, then I don't really want to skew its proportion. Idk I am going to see.
-
Anyways I am in, too.
(http://i.imgur.com/78iwkES.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/KnbzxR7.png)
-
The Socialist Union of Blaist Blaland officially enters.
-
can you smallinate it for me yqt
-
bam
-
this is the largest collectino of national flags i've seen
-
Nice to see very little trouble with that potential rule change. Although really, very few people are likely to use it, but its better to have it in place.
Anyways - I want to redo jury voting but I have no idea what would work for the best
JURY MEMBERS:
- No confirmation is needed beforehand, simply listen to the songs and submit your votes to me (same voting rules apply).
- ***More rules go here based on what we decide below:****
Alright so I have literally no idea what you guys want. It is possible to get 20 jury voters (based on how much recruitment TMC and I do), and I really don't want significantly more jury votes than actual participants. 6 from last edition seemed to work well enough, so I'd like to limit it to 7 or so actual cast jury votes.
The only reasonable way I can do this is by merging peoples votes together if they are similar (similar biggest 3 votes).
However if you guys have any better ideas, please tell me.
^^^ don't forget plskthx
Anyways I wanted to see what the scoreboard looked like with the flags submitted so far.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/v3s5kb7rwhsna2o/univisiontest5.png)
Adds a lot of nice variety to what was just white flags previously. also congrats ethanthova
-
That is awesome.
-
wait wait i don't remember those songs
-
ok i'll do mine tomorrow morning
-
inb4 random guest signs up and takes fiah's place
guests: this is a good idea
-
No comments about jury voting means no one can complain about it. :P Which means we will be merging jury votes proportionally into roughly 7 groups based on how similar they are.
Final rule changes:
VOTING:
- You cannot vote for entries you submitted.
- If you are participating, you are required to vote ***or else your entries will be disqualified and will come last.***
- Everyone who votes will need to give me a ranking of their ***10 favourite songs***. This will be converted into the following points: ***Discuss below***
- The song with the most points wins!
- Tiebreaking is: song with the most number of voters wins, if same # of voters, it is then based on running order.
SENDING VOTES:
- Votes must be sent in private message to me, Yqt1001.
"or else your entries will be disqualified and will come last." basically to stop swonx from coming third again if he doesn't vote. :P
The points are interesting. Voting for 5 songs is not enough for a 34 entry competition, so we have to increase it to 10 songs. This gives us a couple of options for points: Eurovision style of 12, 10 and 8-1. Another option is 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1. Or just 10-1.
-
For jury votes, why would you merge based on similarity? That would basically just average all votes for songs that were voted on, in theory. They might as well not exist. Why not merge them into 7 votes proportionally, so that if there are a lot of similar votes they get like 2 (or maybe 3) votes. Or was that the premise originally anyway?
-
do 25 20 16 13 10 7 5 3 2 1
-
do f1 points
25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1
-
22, 19, 15, 12, 10, 6, 5, 3, 2, 1
https://static1.e621.net/data/sample/09/3f/093f27d0f353ec2841b0fb270564a330.jpg
-
i don't know what these points mean but they should have a mathematical pattern.
25, 16, 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1
fibbonaci
25, 18, 13, 10, 7, 5, 4, 3, 2,1
power
25, 22, 18, 15, 12, 9, 7, 5, 3, 1
exponential
-
some others:
linear
30, 27, 24, 21, 18, 15, 12, 9, 6, 3
quadratic
26, 21, 17, 13, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1
-
I feel going up to 20 is too high when 10th place is only 1 point.
-
You could also just allow say, 15 points, and people can spread it as they want.
Otherwise I was thinking 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1 or Eurovision style
-
With linear you might as well just use 1-10
I like something roughly like exponential
25, 22, 18, 15, 12, 9, 7, 5, 3, 1
Maybe modify it to
20, 16, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1
-
that moment when your flag scales down perfectly
-
that moment when your flag scales down perfectly
2:3 ftw!!!
-
You could also just allow say, 15 points, and people can spread it as they want.
I'm still not comfortable implementing that for this edition, maybe next time. :P
Anyways I'm liking:
15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1
12, 10, 8-1
20, 16, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3-1
Any particular preferences?
-
15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1 would be my preference
-
poll
-
20, 16, 13, etc is najs
-
i just started from 25 because that's what the above two posts were
but, i think you/we should consider why linear, exponential, power, log, decaying exponential, or any of the functions are better than the others?
-
i just started from 25 because that's what the above two posts were
but, i think you/we should consider why linear, exponential, power, log, decaying exponential, or any of the functions are better than the others?
Or maybe they aren't better than others...
-
The reason I think exponential makes most sense is because I think it fits best how the songs I'm going to rate would be distributed. I think it would be approximately something like one song being the best, a second one being very good but with a notable difference, and so on down to around song number 4-5-6, where they begin to be harder to judge and more equal, so the difference in points should be smaller.
Of course, you will rarely encounter a distribution that perfectly resembles it, but I would guess the pattern in general is closer to that than for example the linear model, where you would in general distinguish the different songs you rate by roughly equal spacing, and you would statistically have just as hard judging which song is the best vs number 2 as judging whether your number 7 is better than 8 or the other way around.
-
idk if this has been discussed, but what if we did like a thing where we just spread the points the way we want it instead of votes and that
or would that be abused?
-
I agree with what Bla said. Although it is hardly a solid rule, you have stronger opinions about songs you like more and weaker ones for songs you sorta like. If you look at my rankings for ESC 2013, my 3 most favourite I would vote for them under any circumstance and actively cheered them on in May. With the rest of my top 10 I never really cared and was just happy to see them do well and see them on stage. It's hardly a linear relationship at work here.
I have only allocated 2 days of time to this topic and we are running out! So is it 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1 or 20, 16, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3-1? I think the first one because the margin between 1st and 5th is less. Meaning you could still win if you're 3rd with everyone rather than if you're 1st with some people and everyone else hates you.
-
I have only allocated 2 days of time to this topic and we are running out! So is it 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1 or 20, 16, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3-1? I think the first one because the margin between 1st and 5th is less. Meaning you could still win if you're 3rd with everyone rather than if you're 1st with some people and everyone else hates you.
A good rl example of this is ESC 2013 actually, with second placer Azerbaijan getting more top points than the actual winner.
Under the Eurovision voting system (12, 10, 8-1)
Denmark: 281 points (8 12 points)
Azerbaijan: 234 points (10 12 points)
83.2% ratio.
15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1:
Denmark: 331 points
Azerbaijan: 275 points
83.0% ratio.
20, 16, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3-1:
Denmark: 442 points
Azerbaijan: 405 points
91.6% ratio.
While this wouldn't have pushed Azerbaijan to victory (with that said Denmark did get one of the highest scores in the history of the contest). This 10% could become pretty big in a close year. Probably not worth really considering though.
-
til there's negatives
-
Perhaps it would be interesting to see the results of the last unvision if the two voting thingamabobs had been used and then make a decision from there?
-
Perhaps it would be interesting to see the results of the last unvision if the two voting thingamabobs had been used and then make a decision from there?
The problem is we only ranked the top 5 songs so it could get a bit messy. Also, Shady Lady had nearly double the points so very little would change in the top 2.
-
i'll vote for #1 if there's a voting
-
I'll vote for 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1.
-
Everyone is cool with 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1 then?
-
no.
-
-snip-
-
no.
I need a reason for this.
-
I don't even understand what's going on
-
Everyone is cool with 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-1 then?
yus
-
Right so this concludes the mess that was solidifying the rules, hopefully these should be basically final and very minor changes will happen in February. :P
Anyways as for schedule, starting song submissions on Wednesday and opening the voting + live broadcast on Saturday? Is Wednesday-Saturday enough time for song submissions? You'd have until the next Thursday to vote and the results would be on the Friday or Saturday. Meaning October 2nd until October 12th is the entire Univision period.
It seems a bit rushed but I really don't want it to take 3 weeks again.
-
ok
-
Amzing
-
make it lonker
-
I'd like it to start a week later maybe, if possible, I'll know tomorrow.
-
Ok tomorrow is probably fine.
-
make it lonker
can't yqt has a doctors appointment
-
that doesn't even make any sense even if it's one of his trips to toronto
-
how dows it not make sense