NationStates Map/Roleplay

[Bla]

I think we should split the USF map right here between those who want a totally constructed world and those who just want to roleplay as fictional nations without all of this extra "different species" stuff.

Why didn't we split it when we started choosing things about the galaxy and solar system etc.? I don't see any reason to split it. And designing the species doesn't mean you have to make a totally constructed world any more than picking a different radius of the planet than Earth or a different star type than the Sun means you have to make a totally constructed world. It just means we have a different species than humans on our planet. I think that would help a lot on making our world more realistic compared to if we had species identical to humans who somehow were there and progressed from tribal-like stages to civilization. The splitting argument just seems like a cheap way to short-circuit the discussion.

If Darvince wants Saguans to be a cat-like species that controls Darvincia or other Darvince-countries I'm fine with it, then I'll just vote no to the part about one species in all of our countries. But Idk much about Darvince's intention with Saguans. Can they communicate with the inhabitants of other countries?

I like the idea of avian-resembling humanoids with beaks.

[vh]

i'd like humans but skin color gets lighter closer to the equator because it must be a pain to have to radiate all that additional heat that gets absorbed at least that's how it happened in kallisto after everyone was exposed to nuclear blast tests also doge live on sodar

[tuto99]

I think we should split the USF map right here between those who want a totally constructed world and those who just want to roleplay as fictional nations without all of this extra "different species" stuff.

Why didn't we split it when we started choosing things about the galaxy and solar system etc.? I don't see any reason to split it. And designing the species doesn't mean you have to make a totally constructed world any more than picking a different radius of the planet than Earth or a different star type than the Sun means you have to make a totally constructed world. It just means we have a different species than humans on our planet. I think that would help a lot on making our world more realistic compared to if we had species identical to humans who somehow were there and progressed from tribal-like stages to civilization. The splitting argument just seems like a cheap way to short-circuit the discussion.

I disagree. At this point if you want to start a poll to totally change the inhabitants of usf to become some humanoids I might as well opt out of this project and start a new one.

[Bla]

I disagree. At this point if you want to start a poll to totally change the inhabitants of usf to become some humanoids I might as well opt out of this project and start a new one.

What are we changing them from? Can you show me where we ever agreed that humans were the inhabitants? Because I never agreed to that and imagined that it'd only make sense that alien species evolved on the planet and not human clones. The probability of that is zero at least.

If you want to leave the entire project over me simply starting a poll I won't hold you back. I think you're acting irrationally and are simply short-circuiting the discussion by threatening with leaving, hoping that it'll silence my proposals so you can have it your way whether the majority agrees with you or not. That is an egoistic mentality. If you create a new project but are ready to leave it whenever the majority doesn't agree with you or even simply makes polls for other ideas, then I'm definitely not going to join it I can say, good luck with that in any case.

I don't get why people are getting so shocked over this proposal. If you want humans just vote for humans, or you could just say they must resemble humans mostly, then you shouldn't really have to do much more than that. I don't see how this would destroy your history or nations or anything like that.
I wrote a history for Blaland with alien species but I had to scrap it all when I put Blaist Blaland on this map. If people are getting all angry over these proposals to coordinate what kind of life inhabits our nations I might as well just say that the alien species I designed are the inhabitants of Blaist Blaland and then we can have a planet full of nations with different species mixed with humans and cats for all I care.

[tuto99]

It felt like at this point that humans were suitable as inhabitants for our countries (this is merely my perspective) but If you are going to make a poll to decide the primary inhabitants of Universalis to be humanoids, that's basically forcing whoever that decided to have humans in their country to make them not human. If you want the inhabitants of Blaland to be humanoids or whatever the case is, go ahead, I don't care. I am just not willing to change my concept of who lives in MY country.

[FiahOwl]

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[Bla]

It felt like at this point that humans were suitable as inhabitants for our countries (this is merely my perspective) but If you are going to make a poll to decide the primary inhabitants of Universalis to be humanoids, that's basically forcing whoever that decided to have humans in their country to make them not human. If you want the inhabitants of Blaland to be humanoids or whatever the case is, go ahead, I don't care. I am just not willing to change my concept of who lives in MY country.

Well we also made polls for how our galaxy should be, you see if we all went along and chose the galaxies we inhabited to be different, the problem is that our history etc. ends up becoming nonsense. We need to agree on the galaxy we live in before we can start to write anything that mentions what the sky looks like, even if it is forcing what the majority agrees on upon others. I think it would make sense to come to an agreement on what inhabits our planet before starting writing about it. Seeing as our planet isn't Earth it's not self-evident that humans should inhabit it at all, in fact the probability humans would evolve elsewhere is probably 0. If people aren't willing to compromise and come to agreement with which species inhabits our civilizations, ok, there isn't really anything to do about it. I just think our stories are going to become utter nonsense if we have many different species both Earthly and completely fictive inhabiting the nations. I had some ideas for some drawings I wanted to make of life in Blaist Blaland over the past few days but I can't really draw them when I'm undecided on what should live there, not that I'd have time for it anyway. I want some species to live there that inhabits the other countries because that'd make sense biologically, that's why I proposed the ideas. But when people take it for granted humans lived here since the tribal stage I just don't know what to make sense of anymore.

[FiahOwl]

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[Darvince]

My idea for Saguans is that they were throughout most of Dar nations, including a lot of Himalia, Sagua, Height Sagua, and Key to Don, that region north of Blaland, Hellpotatoe also adopted them before he left, which is east of Blaland, and northern Darvincia also has a lot of Saguans (the Nausikaa region), which is why I thought it was silly that you wanted Blaland to have no Saguans yet you were accepting of other races/cultures.

Saguans are a cat-like species, except they are humanoids, and they can have a variety of fur patterns depending on where they live. My idea was that they evolved long past from a tiger-like species which became smaller and more intelligent along one path, with Saguans splitting from one of those species and their "cousins" becoming a small feline that hopped through trees and could go on all fours or on two legs, and stood about three feet tall and had basic tool usage.
   Saguan hands will be naked on the bottom (the palm side) and full fledged fur on the top of them (the knuckle side), with fat pads on the bottom that have little or no nerves in them like the bottom of human feet, they will have 5 fingers (because skeleton is much harder to evolve) with 2 joints, and one joint in the hand that is "hidden" thereby making the fingers shorter, the fingernail is also replaced with a retractable claw in order (at least in the past) to open up small things like nuts and to tear flesh since in the past they were carnivores and not omnivores.

[FiahOwl]

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[FiahOwl]

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[FiahOwl]

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[tuto99]

3 If a non-national entity as recognized by the World Congress wishes to involve itself in matters concerning extraterrestrial bodies, it must be sponsored by a national entity recognized by the World Congress. Said national entity has full liability for any accidents incurred by the non-national entity. However, the national entity may choose how to handle that liability whether it be by punishing the non-national entity or taking the punishment itself.

Hmm, I think that any non-national entity should go through a process of validation not only by a nation, but also by World Congress. Let me explain.

1. Non-national entity (whether it may be an independent group or organization) submits a request by World Congress to be involved with space program. The nation that person/group resides in should decide whether their request should be validated or not. (Power should go to the nation. If World Congress accepts the request but the nation doesn't, then that is only an issue for the group and their country.)

2. If granted permission to establish a lunar mining site (or whatever they desire) by both Congress and the group's nation, they have full access to any non-established lunar site. (Whether they want to inquire more about an established site is another issue)

3. If any wrongdoings occur, depending on the situation, the group, their nation, or both aliases should be held liable for any misconduct that occurred.

I'm too tired to keep typing but this is my idea of how that should work.

[blotz]

[5]. yes it fucking is

[FiahOwl]

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[Darvince]

it's not a crime if managed correctly, why should we bother to not fuck up the moon? it's dead.

[atomic7732]

2 If a nation wishes to publicize its equipment, it may do so. The equipment will then be accessible to any member of this treaty.

Solea agrees. On the case that,

3 If a non-national entity as recognized by the World Congress wishes to involve itself in matters concerning extraterrestrial bodies, it must be sponsored by a national entity recognized by the World Congress. Said national entity has full liability for any accidents incurred by the non-national entity. However; the national entity may choose how to handle that liability whether it be by punishing the non-national entity or takes any punishment itself.

5 Mining resources on the moon is not a crime!

Solea does not believe this needs to be here.

Solea also proposes an addition to section 3 (or a new section, whichever fits better):

The World Congress or a national entity responsible for the sponsorship of a non-national entity may at any time choose to revoke the access given to the non-national entity.

[FiahOwl]

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[matty406]

it's not a crime if managed correctly, why should we bother to not fuck up the moon? it's dead.

Because it's good practice for future missions to other planets.

[Bla]

1 If a nation brings equipment to a moon for any purposes then the nation has a prerogative given by this treaty to exclusively use that equipment unless they wish to share it as in point 2.

Blaist Blaland can blagree with the blabove.

2 If a nation wishes to publicize its equipment, it may do so. The equipment will then be accessible to any member of this treaty.

Blaist Blaland can blagree with the blabove.

3 If a non-national entity as recognized by the World Congress wishes to involve itself in matters concerning extraterrestrial bodies, it must be sponsored by a national entity recognized by the World Congress. Said national entity has full liability for any accidents incurred by the non-national entity. However, the national entity may choose how to handle that liability whether it be by punishing the non-national entity or taking the punishment itself.

Blaist Blaland can blapproximately blaccept Tuto's blaternative. We think there should be clear rules so that private organizations that prove to behave irresponsibly can be denied blaccess to the Moon and possibly closed down and the responsible people punished.

4 All entities which have been convicted of a Space Crime are to have trial in the Space Court where they will be assorted their punishment. If it is a non-national entity which committed the crime then it is the responsibility of the national entity sponsoring that non-national entity to see that the punishment is put through. If the national entity is committed of a crime OR said national entity fails to see that the non-national entity is punished, then it is the duty of the World Congress to see that the punishment is put through.

This seems similar to Tuto's proposal, and Blaist Blaland can blagree with it.

5 Mining resources on the moon is not a crime!

For the bladvancement of civilization and considering all the benefits those resources could give to people on the blanet rather than being tied up in a blarren wasteland, Blaist Blaland will doo all we can to ensure that mining resources on the moon should be blacceptable by international laws.

Solea also proposes an addition to section 3 (or a new section, whichever fits better):

The World Congress or a national entity responsible for the sponsorship of a non-national entity may at any time choose to revoke the access given to the non-national entity.

Blaist Blaland blapproves of the blabove bladdition!

it's not a crime if managed correctly, why should we bother to not fuck up the moon? it's dead.

Because it's good practice for future missions to other planets.

Blaist Blaland does not understand the blabove blargument. Why is it relevant for other blanets how we treat a blarren moon? Is it then not good practice to mine resources on our own blanet either? Blafter all, our own blanet has much greater risks blassociated with mining than our blarren moon.

[matty406]

That is true. We've made a bit of a mess on earth, but developing helpful practices on a barren body like the moon, where mistakes won't make any impact on an ecology, will help us on earth and on other planets, if they're terraformed or an exoplanetary terra.

Speaking of which would it ever be possible to lower the moon's density so much via mining that it effects the tides on earth?

[FiahOwl]

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[tuto99]

"- Scientific discoveries made by research stations may only be censored and classified for a period of eight years"
Sounds pointless in my opinion.

[vh]

mining on the moon will not be economical with current tech unless there is some major advancement or the materials found are worth a lot. transporting the coal would cost way more than the coal itself would be worth. however it might be economical for rare-earth metals, depending on where the refinery is located.

A refinery on the moon would allow a much smaller mass to be transported back to the earth, but would require electricity, water, and other machinery.

[vh]

kallisto energy usage

per person:
lights: 100 W (100 1W leds sounds possible)
heating: 100 W (wear more clothes up north)
other appliances: 200 W
transport: 200 W (subway / bicycle)
industry: 1400 W
total: 2000 W per person
with a population of 1 billion this equates to 2 TW

there are three visible lakes on the map, one which is 50,000 km^2. assuming a depth of 1 km and a height of 2km, it can be used to store mgh = 10^18 joules, which is enough to store a few days of electricity as a load balancer

plants
coal: 54%
nuclear: 46%

[Bla]

- All governments have equal opportunity to conduct research or other operations on all celestial bodies.

Hmm, we're not sure about this paragraph, if a state represses human rights, it might be worth making sanctions possible here.

- No lunar module capable of supporting or sustaining life shall deny help to any astronaut in need of air, food, oxygen or otherwise.

We need to define 'otherwise', but Blaist Blaland can agree with the others.

- Scientific discoveries made by research stations may only be censored and classified for a period of eight years

Blaist Blaland would like to proposse that these discoveries may not be censored, but should be made publicly available for the scientific progress of all countries. At the same time, we would like to ban weapon research here. If that ban isn't possible, exceptions could be discussed here.

[vh]

but wait. water storage works but a 1 kilometer dam is stretching a bit. instead, one cubic kilometer of concrete (2.4 billion tons) which is heated to 1000 C stores around 2.1e18 joules, which is even more.

world cement production is 3.4 billion tons per year and concrete is only 11% cement so this should work

[atomic7732]

- Scientific discoveries made by research stations may only be censored and classified for a period of eight years

Blaist Blaland would like to proposse that these discoveries may not be censored, but should be made publicly available for the scientific progress of all countries. At the same time, we would like to ban weapon research here. If that ban isn't possible, exceptions could be discussed here.

Solea agrees with the ban on weapons research and non-censorship of scientific research. Solea suggests publication of all discoveries within a year to an international scientific organization.

[FiahOwl]

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[blotz]

wait did we even vote on moons yet how many do we have