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Author Topic: 3D on 3D-TV  (Read 8662 times)

Lunchbox

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3D on 3D-TV
« on: May 03, 2011, 01:06:05 PM »
Hey,
I really love this program. You did a great job!
But I would love to see the universe in 3D on my 3D-TV with its "actual" colors. But I just don't get it to work. The DLP-mode is obviously not compatible with my TV (Samsung LE46C750) and the anaglyph lame =)
I even tried a special 3D-driver "TriDef 3D" which works with a lot of DirectX games but Universe Sandbox doesn't even start (is it actually DirectX? Probably OpenGL...)
So is there any way to see it "really" 3D?
Thx in advance

My Specs:
Radeon HD5850
Win7 64bit

Dan Dixon

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2011, 03:11:37 PM »
Universe Sandbox uses DirectX, not OpenGL.

How does your Samsung TV do 3D? I spent a few minutes looking and couldn't find the information on how it actually works. Can you find some technical information about the 3D mode (and not marketing hype) and post a link here?

Lunchbox

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 05:43:47 AM »
What exactly do you mean by "how does it do 3D"?
I looked for the technical features. Unfortunately I'm no expert in this matter but I guess the information in there is not quite useful.

But if it uses DirectX it should theoretically work with TriDef 3D. hmm....

Carnage2K4

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 05:58:58 AM »
I would guess that 1 frame would have a clockwise circular polarisation and the next have anticlockwise. with the 2 frames shifted slightly off centre and focus to create a 3D effect while wearing polarised glasses. it's much more complex then the Anaglyph effect USv2 has atm.

atomic7732

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 07:34:20 AM »
I'm pretty sure that it doesn't use polarized light.

Quote
TVs must refresh the picture at least 120 times a second with alternating frames for the left and right eye, which tricks your brain into seeing only one image. Most new TVs are fast enough to do this, but to be 3-D-capable, TVs must include a converter chip and software to break down the signal and separate the left and right images. An infrared or radio beam syncs shutter glasses [below] with the screen to produce the final 3-D effect.
http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-01/its-about-time-3-d-comes-home

Carnage2K4

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 08:01:11 AM »
active shutter is a lot more costly then polarisation, but it's a possibility.
polarisation is what they use in the cinema with the basic plastic glasses.
for shutter you need glasses with inbuilt electronics.

Lunchbox

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 02:19:45 PM »
First of all: this is definitively shutter technology. But I think this is not the important part because obviously the signal the monitor gets doesn't fit its expectations...

Dan Dixon

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 03:58:53 PM »
First of all: this is definitively shutter technology. But I think this is not the important part because obviously the signal the monitor gets doesn't fit its expectations...

That what I need to know... What kind of signal is it expecting?

I'm sorry it's not working. I have seen it work on some 3D TVs.

Lunchbox

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 05:16:18 AM »
I have no idea. What kind of signals exist actually?

Btw, the TV can also transform a "normal" signal to 3D, for example if the pictures for both eyes are either side-by-sider or one above the other. Third possibility is interlaced. Thats also how I can watch YouTube videos in 3D.

But there must be some "native" 3D-signal because if I play a game in 3D using the TriDef-driver the TV automatically switches to 3D-mode. But I don't know what kind of signal it gets from the driver. Whereas in the manual mode I have to actively turn 3D-mode on.

Dan Dixon

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 12:57:15 PM »
That's what I need to know...

I can add interlaced 3D support like what YouTube uses.

The DLP option in Universe Sandbox is checkerboard interlaced. I'll likely rename this so that it's clear and add vertical interlacing support.

Thanks for coming back and replying.

I don't know that this will be in tomorrow's build, but this should an easy fix to add in an upcoming build for sure.

Lunchbox

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 01:23:52 PM »
thx man, you are great :D

Lunchbox

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 01:53:56 PM »
sry for double post...
BUT actually I was just stupid... the TV can operate with checkerboard, I just had to turn on "PC mode" -_-
nevertheless it looks kinda weird. Maybe checkerboard is not the same as checkerboard o.O


EDIT: ahhhhh, I had to reduce the interocular degree! now it's fine. So sorry for stealing your time in fact ^^
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 02:21:30 PM by Lunchbox »

Dan Dixon

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2011, 03:39:37 PM »
No worries. Not a waste of time at all. This was a useful exchange.

I'll change the options to be more like what YouTube offers, ultimately resulting in an improvement for everyone in the end.

Thanks!

elwaps

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2011, 03:12:18 AM »
Hi!

I just registered to ask a question. At first I have to say that I love your program, its much fun to play around with
gravity. Loved to see how e.g. changing the mass of one of jupiter's moons influences the whole system over time.

But now I got a little problem. I use a Panasonic Viera P50VT20E as computer screen for games and movies. This
TV supports 3D via shutter glasses, for games i usually use the nVidia 3DTVPlay-Driver, which makes every game
3D via driver. It even works perfectly with old games like Oblivion. But not with Universe Sandbox. When I normally
start a game, there is a warning that 1080p@60fps istn supported for 3D if the resolution is chosen too high. If the
game is set to 720p, there is a confirmation that the mode works with 3D. When starting US there is none of those
messages. I also cant change the resolution to check if the message is just suppressed.

Then there is the 3D-Modes of the Game itself. DLP looks really creepy for my system and there is no 3D-effect at
all. Red/Cyan doesnt work for me too. If i choose side-by-side I got a good 3D-effect when setting up my TV to
side-by-side - but the program only uses half of the screen and planets look like footballs. Thus I cant change the
screen ratio or resolution, I dont see any way to solve my problem.

Can you help me?


To not have to open a new thread, one little question in addition:
I just tried the galaxies-simulation. When increasing the milky way's mass from one milky way to some billions,
an object doing a fly-by increases speed to 9.9 times the speed of light aka warp speed... why?! :D

Dan Dixon

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2011, 01:59:48 PM »
I'm going to be making some changes to the 3D options in a future release that should fix these issues.

----

I just tried the galaxies-simulation. When increasing the milky way's mass from one milky way to some billions,
an object doing a fly-by increases speed to 9.9 times the speed of light aka warp speed... why?! :D

Two reasons... The time step is probably too high and Universe Sandbox does not consider the theory of relativity or cap the speed of objects (so crazy, unrealistic speeds, like 9.9 ls are possible in the simulator).

elwaps

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2011, 03:17:33 PM »
So masses dont increase while accelerating and lightspeed isnt the limit? I cant image how difficult it would be
to implement theory of relativity but it would be very nice too... but I guess it wouldnt be that easy... ;)
By the way, how do you calculate masses and their relation to other masses while not using transformation of space?

Thanks for your reply, Im looking forward for the next release, seeing my universe in 3D :)


Dan Dixon

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Re: 3D on 3D-TV
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2011, 10:56:55 PM »
By the way, how do you calculate masses and their relation to other masses while not using transformation of space?

Everything is calculated relative to absolute space, which makes sense when using Newton's law of gravitation and for simplistic simulations of the universe, but it isn't how reality actually works. Is that what you mean?