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FiahOwl

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Re: Politics
« Reply #450 on: December 12, 2013, 08:34:16 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:22:25 AM by FiahOwl »

matty406

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Re: Politics
« Reply #451 on: December 13, 2013, 03:43:34 PM »
I've been playing Democracy 3 as the new prime minister

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #452 on: December 23, 2013, 06:08:37 AM »
An idiot from Danish People's Party has asked 1224 questions to the parlament after the government proposed ending the public travel health insurance.
30 of the questions are identical  for 39 countries in Europe, for example "how many public and private hospitals are there in the Vatican" "how many public and private hpstipals are ther in the Norway" "haw mnay pobluc and prvate hsoitals are their in the Gurmoney" and "how much does a knee operation cost in the Canal Islands between UK and France" "how mush dos a knee operation cawst in the Spain"

Wtf.

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #453 on: December 23, 2013, 06:18:11 AM »
public travel heatl insraucen

is that like health insurance for travelers

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #454 on: December 23, 2013, 06:20:20 AM »
Yes, as in Denmark state pays if your knee breaks in Spain and a hospital in Spain repairs it, the proposal is that you pay it yourself instead.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #455 on: December 23, 2013, 12:48:50 PM »
An idiot from Danish People's Party has asked 1224 questions to the parlament after the government proposed ending the public travel health insurance.
30 of the questions are identical  for 39 countries in Europe, for example "how many public and private hospitals are there in the Vatican" "how many public and private hpstipals are ther in the Norway" "haw mnay pobluc and prvate hsoitals are their in the Gurmoney" and "how much does a knee operation cost in the Canal Islands between UK and France" "how mush dos a knee operation cawst in the Spain"

Wtf.
Source? Are all those misspellings what they actually asked or are they you exaggerating to make the "fascist" party seem even worse than it is?

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #456 on: December 23, 2013, 03:08:51 PM »
Source?
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2013/12/23/070434.htm

Are all those misspellings what they actually asked or are they you exaggerating to make the "fascist" party seem even worse than it is?
I didn't quote the person's actual questions. It occured in the Danish parlament, so it was in Danish, thus obviously the spelling mistakes don't apply. I only wrote the content, I don't see how the spelling mistakes is "exaggerating" it, it was simply to make it look quickly written based on the fact that more than 1200 questions had been written in a few days, meaning that much attention or consideration when writing them probably wasn't given to most of them. And nowhere in my post did I call the party fascist, although I'd like to see it to disappear from the surface of the Earth, the sooner the better, as all it's doing is polluting it with hate towards LGBT people and immigrants and spread religious stupidity. And now spamming the parlament with stupid questions anyone can find the answer to from a quick Google search.

A minority of them are actual fascists, most of them don't identify as it, but hold ideas that point in that direction. Ideologically they're similar to the republicans in their social conservatism, nationalism, religious ideology and ignorance towards science (denial of climate change), economically they're somewhat different and similar to the social democrats.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 03:22:57 PM by Bla »

smjjames

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Re: Politics
« Reply #457 on: December 24, 2013, 07:58:15 AM »
You guys have more than two parties though, we have to deal with what we've got. Well okay, the US is capable of having a multiparty system (there are lots of smaller ones), it's just that we have two that dominate everything.

Even if I wanted to have the Republican Party disappear, I don't want a single party system either. Though in theory it would be one big party and lots of smaller ones until one or more filled the vacuum.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 08:02:36 AM by smjjames »

atomic7732

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Re: Politics
« Reply #458 on: January 05, 2014, 12:26:23 AM »

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #459 on: January 05, 2014, 05:40:45 AM »
Well written.

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #460 on: January 07, 2014, 01:56:08 PM »
Kol at the pro-car-ist reactions to Enhedslisten's Morten Kabell becoming the mayor of technology and environment after the municipal election. They're simply hilarious (but in Danish) (the thing about 90% of them have in common is their warning of impending apocarlypse - especially for cars and car drivers)
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Politik/KV13/Artikler/Hele_landet/2013/11/20/100645.htm

The mayor himself has said no thanks to getting a mayor car
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2014/01/07/bilskeptisk-borgmester-noejes-med-cyklen.htm

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #461 on: January 08, 2014, 05:00:23 PM »
Private messages between Governor’s Christie’s deputy chief of staff and two of his top executives at the Port Authority reveal a vindictive effort to create “traffic problems in Fort Lee” by shutting lanes to the George Washington Bridge and apparent pleasure at the resulting gridlock.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/christie_kelly_bridge_lane_closures_emails.html

"Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee."
"Is it wrong that I’m smiling"
"No"
"I feel badly about the kids I guess."
"They are the children of Buono voters"
"Bottom line is that he didn't say safely"

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #462 on: January 14, 2014, 03:44:32 AM »
Some good news for once. In 2013, 33.8% of Denmark's power supply came from wind power, which is the first time a country reaches above 1/3, and 57.4% of the power used in December came from wind power, which is also a world record. On December 21, the wind turbines produced more than 100% of the power used.

Source:
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2014/01/14/104657.htm
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Regionale/MidtVest/2014/01/13/173345.htm

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #463 on: January 14, 2014, 04:26:33 AM »
i read this somewhere: good news is bad news for that means that good is now unusual and bad the norm

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #464 on: January 14, 2014, 05:01:35 AM »
But that's not the news' fault :P

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #465 on: January 14, 2014, 07:00:05 AM »
That's because good things aren't usually events, or aren't events that would interest the masses. For example if there was a news report on how the number of malnourished people has declined from 1.2 billion to 600 million in the past 20 years, it would not be one with a scene so it would at most get a sentence or two during a newscast.

blotz

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Re: Politics
« Reply #466 on: January 14, 2014, 01:05:22 PM »

I certainly didn't. If anything I got brainwashed into being afraid of Communism. I began to think out my own political opinions, which I called Blaism, but I came to many of the same conclusions as Communism. :)


bla what was different

tuto99

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Re: Politics
« Reply #467 on: January 14, 2014, 01:41:07 PM »
That's because good things aren't usually events, or aren't events that would interest the masses. For example if there was a news report on how the number of malnourished people has declined from 1.2 billion to 600 million in the past 20 years, it would not be one with a scene so it would at most get a sentence or two during a newscast.
That's sad...

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #468 on: January 14, 2014, 02:01:12 PM »
bla what was different
I haven't read Das Kapital, The Communist Manifestor or Marx's works (other than small parts) so as such I'm not a "traditional Marxist". I don't claim to support all his economic ideas as such. I've had a greater interest in the economic system that many socialist countries have had, the planned economy, which is mainly what drew me to communism.

Anyway, the most important difference I have is probably my thoughts on the statelessness of communism, Marx wrote that in communism, the state would no longer exist. I haven't read up on his reasoning for a classless society being stateless - a Marxist might tell me that a society with a state is necessarily one with classes. But in my future vision, I think of a classless society with a state.

My future vision might be more similar to Marxist socialism, but I don't think I understand Marx's vision well enough to compare it to my own, because I haven't read his books. So there are probably going to be some differencies in our future visions.

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #469 on: January 23, 2014, 12:31:58 PM »
Some interesting facts about pig meat production in Denmark. It's rather sad that we as a society have decided that there's simply nothing to do about the fact that people eat much more meat than they need. Producing 1 kg of meat takes several times that amount of plant, meaning much more people could get food if we produced less meat. And less animals would have to suffer in the production system.

- In 2012, almost 20 million pigs were slaughtered in Denmark.

- Every fourth conventional/third ecological pig dies before it's slaughtered, equal to 25,000 every day.

- At least 95% of conventional pigs have parts of their tail cut off without anaesthesia to prevent other pigs from biting in the tail. This works because it makes the tail much more sensitive, so pigs are more likely to move if other pigs bite in their cut tail. The reason pigs bite each other's tails in the first place is because of the stress, which exists because of the conditions they live in, one of the major reasons for this is that they have nothing to do.
According to a scientist, their needs for straw per day is 400g per pig, and they currently typically get 10 g per day, where they get any.
The law has forbidden cutting their tails since 2004, except when other measures have been attempted - and so this "exception" is used as excuse for 95% of the pigs.
It is completely forbidden to cut the tails of ecologic pigs.
Additionally, many pigs are also castrated without anaesthesia.

- Conventional pigs are moved to the slaughterhouses when they have a mass of about 105 kg, at this time they're usually between 5 and 6 months old.

- A conventional pig must have at least 0.65 square meters of space within a stable.

- Every third slaughtered pig suffers from gastric ulcers.

- Between 2008 and 2012, the export of young pigs has increased from 5.3 million to 9.2 million per year.

- 90% of the pig meat is exported to other countries. Germany receives the majority.

- 4,500 Mg (uhappy now, Atomic :P) of pig meat is produced per day in Denmark. For comparison, the world's biggest producer, China, produces 140,000 Mg per day.

- People in Denmark consume on average 22 kg of meat per year, of which 9 kg is pig meat. People above 60 years consume 16 kg pig meat per year on average.

- Danish Crown, which is the company behind the majority of the pig meat production, is outsourcing jobs from the country. In 2012, it had 8,000 employed in Denmark and 15,000 employed in other countries. In 2004, it was the other way around.

- Pigs are fixed the weeks around when they give birth, "to prevent them from lying on their offspring".




Sources:
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2014/01/21/095921.htm
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2014/01/22/172458.htm
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2014/01/21/121534.htm
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Politik/2014/01/18/230141.htm
http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2014/01/23/164131.htm

Is this production system a disgrace? What do you think? What do you think should be done about it?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 12:40:07 PM by Bla »

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #470 on: January 23, 2014, 01:44:26 PM »
What the Christ.

FiahOwl

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Re: Politics
« Reply #471 on: January 23, 2014, 03:05:11 PM »

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Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #472 on: January 27, 2014, 08:18:56 AM »
Kol this


vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #473 on: January 27, 2014, 11:01:10 AM »
are pigs capable of conciousness? it appears not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Mirror_test

therefore, i don't think how the pigs are treated is important from an ethical standpoint much as there aren't any robot cruelty laws at present. the only consideration is whether this form of production is reasonably efficient.

Darvince

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Re: Politics
« Reply #474 on: January 27, 2014, 12:17:50 PM »
bla sadly that is $100% true

atomic7732

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Re: Politics
« Reply #475 on: January 27, 2014, 12:22:16 PM »
new headcanon that all numbers in murica are preceded by $

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #476 on: January 27, 2014, 01:26:32 PM »
are pigs capable of conciousness? it appears not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Mirror_test

therefore, i don't think how the pigs are treated is important from an ethical standpoint much as there aren't any robot cruelty laws at present. the only consideration is whether this form of production is reasonably efficient.
That is a sick and morbid statement. Because what matters is not just whether they're conscious - it matters whether they can feel suffering, and they clearly can. Being able to understand your mirror-image is irrelevant to this fact, so I do not see why you would divide animals into two categories based on that test.

As for efficiency, producing meat in conventional farms can never be efficient, because the production of meat takes up more than ten times the mass in grain, which means had you simply been producing grain instead in the first place, you could've fed more than 10 times as many hungry people on this planet. The vast majority of the energy and nutrients in the crops is lost when it's grown into meat, no matter how horrible you want to make the living conditions for the pigs.

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #477 on: January 27, 2014, 01:32:16 PM »
are pigs capable of conciousness? it appears not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness#Mirror_test

therefore, i don't think how the pigs are treated is important from an ethical standpoint much as there aren't any robot cruelty laws at present. the only consideration is whether this form of production is reasonably efficient.
That is a sick and morbid statement. Because what matters is not just whether they're conscious - it matters whether they can feel suffering, and they clearly can.

As for efficiency, producing meat in conventional farms can never be efficient, because the production of meat takes up more than ten times the mass in grain, which means had you simply been producing grain instead in the first place, you could've fed more than 10 times as many hungry people on this planet. The vast majority of the energy and nutrients in the crops is lost when it's grown into meat, no matter how horrible you want to make the living conditions for the pigs.

but what if a robot has a touch sensor that, when given enough pressure, sets
pain += sensor.pressure
then would we need to treat that robot in a gentle way? or what if cleverbot sets sadness to True whenever someone disconnects in the middle of a conversation?
Both the pig, cleverbot ,and the robot are in the same classification of objects that can feel pain but are not conscious so i think they should be treated about the same.

i understand about the meat and vegetation efficiency. but if it is going to happen, then it should attempt to use as little resources as possible to save more for the hungry people.

Bla

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Re: Politics
« Reply #478 on: January 27, 2014, 01:41:15 PM »
but what if a robot has a touch sensor that, when given enough pressure, sets
pain += sensor.pressure
then would we need to treat that robot in a gentle way?
Pigs have a nervous system and brain that is very similar to that of humans and animals that can do your mirror test, we can see how they react to pain and stress in similar ways to humans. So clearly pigs can and do feel suffering in a way that is very similar to ourselves.
There is no evidence that this is happening to robots. If we had good reasons to believe that robots are capable of suffering, if constructed in such a way, then yes, I think we should limit the suffering as much as possible.

or what if cleverbot sets sadness to True whenever someone disconnects in the middle of a conversation?
Again I don't see any rational reason to how this can be compared to the situation of the pigs any more than that of humans.

Both the pig, cleverbot ,and the robot are in the same classification of objects that can feel pain but are not conscious so i think they should be treated about the same.
Both humans, cleverbot, pigs and the robots are in the same classification of objects that can appear to move and communicate, so I think they should be treated about the same.
You can invent any classification to suit your needs. The question is whether the category is relevant for the case. This case is dealing with suffering. So I think we should use a category that is based on suffering and not a mirror test.

vh

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Re: Politics
« Reply #479 on: January 27, 2014, 01:49:25 PM »
cleverbot becoming sad or suffering when someone disconnects is relevant because both the bot and the pig can suffer. although cleverbot isn't programmed that way, if it is, would it be unethical to break away in the middle of a conversation?

or to have something more concrete, i could type up a script right now that, when executed, would write to a text file how sad it feels. if the terminal is exited, a very large amount of sadness is recorded. does this make it unethical to end the script?

They both can suffer too