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Author Topic: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life  (Read 14829 times)

extern56

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Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« on: November 21, 2014, 05:54:28 PM »
It would be awesome if in universe sandbox you can make a star system and watch life evolve or create life etc. and have alien AI's that you can ally,trade,or have a war with. It would be so awesome. also you can colonize planets moons,and make starbases,customise spaceships,starbases etc. Just a suggestion that i think would be awesome and more of a sandbox game
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 10:31:59 PM by Dan Dixon »

Cryo

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 07:27:50 PM »
I guess this is a very fascinating thing for people because this is the fourth sixth post about life, I can't wait for there to some implementation of this later on😐
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 07:10:35 PM by Cryo »

The Ventifact

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2014, 10:45:52 PM »
Well, as interesting as something like that may be, it just wouldn't fit the theme US2 is going for. At least it's not something Giant Army would add themselves. It's very possible in the future that Universe Sandbox will get mod support. It will eventually be put on Steam, however.

For now, they just need to get the foundation set before anything like that is attempted, if at all. There will be life, just maybe not that complex. For example, we already have an option to add organics to objects in the dispenser panel, so maybe when you're terraforming a planet, the organics you add will eventually turn green on the surface. A.K.A. trees and plants. But they haven't programmed anything like that yet.

If GA decides to add mod support, then the community can make whatever will work for the simulator. Then maybe that's when you can get your AI ships or aliens. I don't want to sound like a party pooper, but I don't think there is a way to get something like that to work. :P

Giant Army already has a hard time just with computing gravity and collisions. From what I've heard them say about how things work for a simulator like this, it appears there is a certain way things have to be done in order to get anything to work in the first place.

They're a talented team, and have made an awesome simulator, but something as complicated as AI pathing, star ships, and bases, they would have to make a completely different game for it to work (as iterated above).

crashman1390

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2014, 01:10:43 PM »
To me this is a little too 'spore-ish'  ;D, its still a good idea don't get me wrong, but as The Ventifact said its just not in the games theme.

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2014, 02:25:22 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:06:09 PM by phinehas »

Greenleaf

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2014, 04:58:20 PM »
...which should be out of the scope of this simulator.


Nothing is out of scope for Universe Sandbox. Something is just farther back the line of things to add.

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2014, 10:38:27 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:06:01 PM by phinehas »

atomic7732

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2014, 11:18:05 AM »
apparently you run Giant Army now

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2014, 12:29:57 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:05:50 PM by phinehas »

DaniheltheMage

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2014, 02:52:33 PM »
UB2 + Spore = Best game ever

Sadly, that would be very hard to make...

Greenleaf

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 03:20:26 PM »
Some would say grandiose, others, delusional but the practical reality is you can't simulate everything as your, "Nothing is out of scope...", statement infers.  There are CPU/GPU limits as well as the desire to get out of Alpha in the next century to consider.  In my opinion, for the commercial success to continue, stick to the macro and leave the micro to others.  The macro is were this stands out from the rest and where you have the least competition, if any.


The point, which you seem to have missed, is that while there is essentially no limit to the scope, there is a limit to what will be included in any specific version. Are you now suggesting to limit the discussion here to to be defined as the next alpha release or perhaps the first beta or the first "final" version or the first update of that?


While you could be argumentative and point out that anything would then be open for discussion here, it would be obvious that life simulation on a planet is not "out of scope". It is simply a feature, as so many others, which is far away.


Apart from that, we obviously have a lot of more pressing issues, but if the users of this forum should like to talk about life simulation in Universe Sandbox, who are you to say no?


The large scale is obviously the main focus point, for reasons you also mention, but you could argue that climate is somewhat less "macro", and at the same time is is a rather unique feature which brings a lot of value.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 11:10:09 PM by Greenleaf »

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2014, 04:44:48 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:05:41 PM by phinehas »

Dan Dixon

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Re: Suggestion
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2014, 10:31:36 PM »
I'm suggesting that I wouldn't go on Autodesk's MAya forum and suggest to them that the software development should include a chess game.  If I did, I would expect them as professionals developing a commercial product and all the rest of those on the forum to laugh my suggestion out of the forum were it belongs.

But apparently you'll go on to the Universe Sandbox forum and suggest to the physics developer that he's wrong or something...

Nothing is out of scope for Universe Sandbox. Something is just farther back the line of things to add.

Agreed. And also with everything else you said Greenleaf.

... you could argue that climate is somewhat less "macro", and at the same time is is a rather unique feature which brings a lot of value.

Climate is one of the features I'm most excited about and I'm proud to have a climate scientist on the team dedicated to it. I think that helping people better understand the fragility of Earth's climate is one of the most useful aspect of the simulator.

Lately she's been working on getting the climate simulation of Mars working correctly... Who knew so much carbon dioxide in Mars' atmosphere freezes out every year that the atmospheric pressure drops and rises seasonally?

I guess this is a very fascinating thing for people because this is the fourth sixth post about life

I think that even a simplistic life simulator would also add lots of value and is something I look forward to working on.

Where simplistic equals a macro view of life on a planet: does the planet have the correct it have life and how much life may exist? Color the surface green where there's life, no color where there's none. Something much simpler than spore... and probably no concept of intelligent life. (along the lines of what The Ventifact was saying)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 10:45:22 PM by Dan Dixon »

Rainbow

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 04:44:10 AM »
This configuration issues to consider and funding issues

Plutonium

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 05:05:39 AM »
Regarding the "large scale is the main focus point"- do you guys think a very much simplified and less detailed version of a simulation like in this project (http://www.illustris-project.org) will be possible in foreseeable future??


phinehas

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 06:14:32 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:05:25 PM by phinehas »

Greenleaf

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2014, 06:43:16 AM »
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But apparently you'll go on to the Universe Sandbox forum and suggest to the physics developer that he's wrong or something...

And?  Your physics developer can't be wrong or "something?  Well, he is...there will not be a game that will simulate everything in the Universe. Show any evidence to the contrary.  It's impossible to fully encapsulate the macro level, none alone think you are going to add on any simulated microcosm occurring on earth.


Well, there was this one time where I was wrong.... uhm.. no wait... that was someone else's fault.

Seriously, you keep forgetting, that I was commenting on what was "in scope" or "out of scope" of this specific product. It would suit you to not make too many assumptions about that part and then even argue the issue. Seems you are equating focus and scope ;-)
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You [Dan] would also be in the camp of being wrong. We all know your talk is just talk and what you actually will and can do with this software is continue along the path you are taking at the macro level and all the bluster about nothing being out of the scope of what will be in the simulator is nonsense.

.... ... because of whatever personal problem you have. Pretty soon, your mom will be on here arguing with me that the earth doesn't orbit the sun.

Don't you think its time to stop now?

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2014, 06:48:08 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:05:12 PM by phinehas »

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2014, 06:58:32 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:05:01 PM by phinehas »

smjjames

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2014, 07:02:02 AM »
A troll on here is anybody that has rational opinions that go against the clique.  Come back when you have something of substance to say about the actual points I made, either for or against.

I changed my mind when I realized you weren't actually being trollish (also morning not quite 100% awakeness) and deleted the post dude.

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2014, 07:06:25 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:04:53 PM by phinehas »

Dan Dixon

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2014, 12:43:21 PM »
Don't you think its time to stop now?

I was thinking the same thing about you.  This is a commercial product.  I am a customer.  You continue to argue with me about a position...

The only one arguing is you. That you're a customer doesn't give you the right to be rude, aggressive, and unnecessarily confrontational.

phinehas

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2014, 02:30:39 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:04:43 PM by phinehas »

Greenleaf

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2014, 02:47:17 PM »
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The only one arguing is you.

You must consider every contrary remark and opinion from me an argument and every one else's not an argument.  You can have some weird double standard if you want but it's not rational or reasonable.

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That you're a customer doesn't give you the right to be rude, aggressive, and unnecessarily confrontational.

You must not like men or people in general that have strong opinions and don't back down to your self defense mechanism of using emotional appeals, moral relativity and general habit of using logical fallacies.

Instead of simply admitting that your software can not possibly simulate everything in the universe, as absurd as that is saying out loud, you want to act like a little girl and cry that me stating otherwise is being meany meany.  Grow up already, you are not Peter Pan.


Ok, lets give this one more go.
Everything is in the scope of Universe Sandbox. Of everything which is in scope, we pick and chose different elements and add those based on how interesting they are and how feasible modelling them is. As you so adamantly point out, you cannot expect to model every scale of the universe (at the same time), but that doesn't change the scope, i.e. the domain from which we can pick and chose. The scope of Maya is likely "3d modelling and animation", whereas our scope is "the universe" obviously with a strong focus on the physical description of said universe.


About arguing...
Someone talks about life. You say it is not in scope.
I respond that it is in scope, at which point you take it upon yourself to explain the computational issues we would run into if we opted to implement everything which is in scope.
I reiterate my point, which is that life is in scope, but is not something we want to focus on now, after which you feel an urge to tell me and then Dan how ignorant we are and how wrong our stance is. There was even something about Dans mother, or was it mine?


It seems rather obvious that you are very argumentative person, and that you never shy away from setting people in their place. It would be nice if you could calm down a little for once.


No, you are not a troll. I doubt you write, as you do, to provoke anyone. It is just the way you seem most inclined to communicate, but you might get a more positive response if you stopped assuming that everyone else are dumb and wrong, or at least refrain from telling them so in no uncertain terms.


I will avoid saying "this is the end of the discussion, and I will never write again", since I realize how hard I may find that if you keep on insisting. Then again... I cannot promise that I will respond further, if it seems I keep failing to get through to you.

Dan Dixon

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2014, 10:23:08 PM »
Since this tread is about life- http://speciesgame.com/ this guys are trying to model evolving life. May be it looks like crap but these are first steps and it is running on an average desktop.

Species looks really cool...
http://speciesgame.com/

Thanks for pointing it out Plutonium.

Just checked it out... there's a downloadable version on the website. I flooded the land, created 2 major islands and then watched as two dominate species emerged, one on each island. So cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW1zTwf3zS8
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 12:11:56 PM by Dan Dixon »

Cryo

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2014, 12:17:00 PM »
this is interesting im messing around with the land masses as i type this...

Plutonium

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2014, 02:09:02 AM »
Thanks for pointing it out Plutonium.

Welcome, but don't blame me when your creatures evolve intelligence and take over your computers ;D

DiamondMiner10

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Re: Suggestion - Watch life evolve or create life
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2014, 02:15:06 PM »
Thanks for pointing it out Plutonium.

Welcome, but don't blame me when your creatures evolve intelligence and take over your computers ;D
Oh no.... The singularity is real