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Author Topic: Black people  (Read 22838 times)

atomic7732

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2014, 08:13:44 PM »
let's not forget that the countries were only allowed independence based on european-drawn borders, cause otherwise they'd be infringing on other world powers, which mixed and split up cultures

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2014, 08:43:17 PM »
I am not racist. I tend to view things in a scientific and statistical way. For instance, there is no doubt that blacks commit proportionally more crimes than others. As I said before, the problem is in their culture and their origins.  As I said in my other post, they never needed to think in their future. In Africa, it was all about hunting and eating, hunting and eating.... while Europeans had to be wiser. They had to stock food for the winter, use their intelligence to built shelters, sew more clothes to protect themselves.

And evidence for that is that in Africa many still walk around naked and never got much past of a mud or wood hut.
This is so not accurate

We continued evolving and they didn't.

Consider the absurdity of this statement and then reread what you wrote:
Blue eyed people continued evolving and green eyed people didn't.

It is kind of a shame you disregarded my post in which I said how it is not just about the melanin, and focused in a small part of my idea that was easier to attack. Anyway, to be honest I am not sure about what I said in that last post about evolution. I'm not quite sure how evolution works. I'm being honest with you there... I can't answer your question about blue and green eyed people. All I wonder is, if black people in Africa have been around longer, why are they in such a worse situation there?

IMHO, it doesn't really matter where humanity has "spawned" in the world, but rather, what different cultures have accomplished. Apes have inhabited this planet for much much longer than any of us, by the way, and we evolved from them (that I know). That doesn't mean that chimps are equal to us.
Corruption, hundreds of years of being ruled over , ultimately culminating what we see today...

we are all africans, we just may not produce as much melanin as one another

No. Just no. If you really think so, that's kind of dumb. There are very evident differences between races.

White people can have straight or curly hair, brown, yellow, green or blue eyes, have or not have freckles, be blond, redheaded, dark haired, and so on.

Black people are usually the same. They have (with very very few exceptions) brown eyes and curly dark hair and that's it.

Not to mention other characteristics like a wider and flatter nose. There is no way to deny they aren't another human race. It is not just about melamine
Well there are sources here and there that have some evidence but nothing solid, the funny thing is the earth has shaped us to be what we currently are if you were to take a few native Africans to the north pole and what a few hundred-thousand years they'd over time adapt to the environment thus looking more like that of a European or white person and vice versa

I was up for some healthy discussion
As was I, intellectual conversations are my favorite thing next to star wars lore :D


I'd also like to add that we only make up 13% of the American population that
 there's only 5% difference between blacks number of crimes and that of a white persons, it is my hope that generation Y changes this in the years to come, I of course will do my part where ever I can too, I want a world were Huamnity and planet earth is number one priority not trivial bull like race.

Edit by Bla: Multi-posts merged
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 08:10:17 AM by Cryo »

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2014, 10:25:30 PM »
Black people are usually the same.

You wouldn't think that if you were black.

"... humans tend to perceive people of other races than themselves to all look alike."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-race_effect

Your comments seem to dehumanize people of other races... and once you dehumanize a group of people it becomes easy to justify doing terrible things to them.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 10:33:55 PM by Dan Dixon »

Darvince

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2014, 10:42:33 PM »
eh if the group of people you associate with has plenty of races (ie for me white, latino/a, black, east asian) then it's not very hard

gabriel.dac

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2014, 04:39:28 AM »
I'll give the answer of why they're so much worse off than anyone in the rest of the continents plain and clear: Europeans had a sense that they were the most superior people in the world that started in ancient Greece and lasted until recently, with some vestiges still remaining in people like you.

Because they felt themselves superior to all the other peoples, and also were really good at warfare, decided to go traipsing around the world murdering and subjugating anyone they desired, meanwhile using their superior weapons against each other in such atrocities as the thirty-years war in Germany, or the French Revolution, or World War I. They especially liked to subjugate Africa as, originally, the local kings and queens and other such people in Africa could get loads of money for trading slaves to the European colonies on the ports.

Once the Europeans decided that they were brave enough, and had enough weapons, they rapidly settled the rest of Africa, declared themselves leaders of the entire continent (except Ethiopia), and then, when the African countries began to want freedom, they just dumped their leadership and left, leaving the countries to sort out becoming democratic and the entire process of nation-hood to themselves. Of course, when there was no real organized revolution and idea for the nation after it was established, this lead to vast unchecked corruption and other terrible acts committed by "presidents" who were known to the rest of the world as harsh dictators. Other nations still have very weak governments, so things that we know and enjoy such as healthcare or transportation infrastructure don't exist and can't be created.

You are absolutely precipitated and misinformed. You gotta think big. Why isn't it the other way around? Why didn't Africans invade Europe? It is because they are nice people? Come on. When the Europeans arrived in Africa, there were a number of tribes who hadn't even discovered the wheel yet.

Also, oppression isn't an excuse in this case. Just think of Germany. They lost a goddamn World War. A few years later they got back in shape and did another World War. They lost it again. They lost two goddamn world wars in less than 50 years (not sure if it's exactly 50), but still, they managed to be one of the most developed nations on Earth. This has to be explained. Let's be honest now, do you think that if we replaced all the Germans and put Africans there, do you really think Germany would be a rich country? Come on

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2014, 05:04:34 AM »
Let's be honest now, do you think that if we replaced all the Germans and put Africans there, do you really think Germany would be a rich country? Come on

Let's be honest now

yes

atomic7732

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2014, 06:58:25 AM »
Let's be honest now, do you think that if we replaced all the Germans and put Africans there, do you really think Germany would be a rich country? Come on
If they were treated like europeans

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2014, 06:59:26 AM »
I'll give the answer of why they're so much worse off than anyone in the rest of the continents plain and clear: Europeans had a sense that they were the most superior people in the world that started in ancient Greece and lasted until recently, with some vestiges still remaining in people like you.

Because they felt themselves superior to all the other peoples, and also were really good at warfare, decided to go traipsing around the world murdering and subjugating anyone they desired, meanwhile using their superior weapons against each other in such atrocities as the thirty-years war in Germany, or the French Revolution, or World War I. They especially liked to subjugate Africa as, originally, the local kings and queens and other such people in Africa could get loads of money for trading slaves to the European colonies on the ports.

Once the Europeans decided that they were brave enough, and had enough weapons, they rapidly settled the rest of Africa, declared themselves leaders of the entire continent (except Ethiopia), and then, when the African countries began to want freedom, they just dumped their leadership and left, leaving the countries to sort out becoming democratic and the entire process of nation-hood to themselves. Of course, when there was no real organized revolution and idea for the nation after it was established, this lead to vast unchecked corruption and other terrible acts committed by "presidents" who were known to the rest of the world as harsh dictators. Other nations still have very weak governments, so things that we know and enjoy such as healthcare or transportation infrastructure don't exist and can't be created.

You are absolutely precipitated and misinformed. You gotta think big. Why isn't it the other way around? Why didn't Africans invade Europe? It is because they are nice people? Come on. When the Europeans arrived in Africa, there were a number of tribes who hadn't even discovered the wheel yet.

Also, oppression isn't an excuse in this case. Just think of Germany. They lost a goddamn World War. A few years later they got back in shape and did another World War. They lost it again. They lost two goddamn world wars in less than 50 years (not sure if it's exactly 50), but still, they managed to be one of the most developed nations on Earth. This has to be explained. Let's be honest now, do you think that if we replaced all the Germans and put Africans there, do you really think Germany would be a rich country? Come on

So why is this? because it's blacks en particular? and what Africans are you talking about? there's LOT"S of us all over the place that have very different mind sets , The effect's of being ruled over can have ever lasting effect's on a people, in a way, i could say we were broken and still are to a point, most African civilizations where very much rich in the distant past but lost it all to war and conquest and in actual records the Africans were being friendly they welcomed there the Europeans, there was also a reason they didn't go north into Europe (cant remember)

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2014, 08:40:53 AM »
Just because there were tribes that hadn't invented the wheel yet doesn't mean the entire continent's invalid, unless you think Europe is invalid because of the Saami people and some other Lapps that were hunter-gatherers.

Also, about that oppression, it's an unfair comparison because Germany was only held under the butts of France and Britain for about 15 years total, and they were still treated as humans, not as renewable resources that are only there for the financial gain and improved lifestyle of the European.

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Re: Why was my thread about black people deleted?
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2014, 12:21:35 PM »
It is truly naive to think you can simply explain the higher crime rates and other problems simply by some black "culture" being inferior.

First of all, there is no universal black culture. That fact alone makes your argument invalid. Black people just like any other group, have different cultures. Just the same way there's no single white culture. When you begin to say cultures are inferior, and at the same time falsely claim cultures can accurately be substituted with race in your language, your language borders racism and this is why your previous thread was removed after your last reply.

Secondly, your comparisons are nonsensical, because black people everywhere on the planet live under completely different conditions than other groups. In western countries, prejudice and discrimination makes it harder for them to get jobs and leads to marginalization, which we know causes higher crime rates. To say it is simply their culture is not at all scientific. It is to make up a quick explanation for some data you have, just don't go on to say you have any evidence for it.

Another factor is that they've historically been in poverty in e.g. USA - they started out as slaves, ironically brougt to the country by people with the same kind of mindset who now think they are a problem - people who view them as inferior. Sadly statistics show that the American "dream" and other such ideas are nothing else than a few anecdotes, on top of the statistical fact that the majority of the population ends up in the same social stratum they were born in. This is true regardless of race or culture.

Now for comparing Africa to Europe etc., these areas each have different resources, different climates, many forested areas in Africa simply do not have soil that makes them fit for building infrastructure for example. But we certainly have seen examples of civilizations - e.g. Egypt could be mentioned, which built the pyramids, discovered mathematical relations long before Europe and utilized the periodic flooding of the Nile to grow crops.

Also, oppression isn't an excuse in this case. Just think of Germany. They lost a goddamn World War. A few years later they got back in shape and did another World War. They lost it again. They lost two goddamn world wars in less than 50 years (not sure if it's exactly 50), but still, they managed to be one of the most developed nations on Earth. This has to be explained. Let's be honest now, do you think that if we replaced all the Germans and put Africans there, do you really think Germany would be a rich country? Come on
In WW1 Germany's losses were essentially 0 in terms of infrastructure, their losses were soldiers (which the allies felt roughly equally), weaponry (which became more or less replaced with more modern ones between the wars anyway), and of course an enormous amount of money they had to pay, which they couldn't. - They implemented roughly Keynesian economic policies which ended the market's never-ending spiral but at the same time made their debt inflate... a problem they could ignore until WW2 and bigger problems stole people's attention.

The fact that their economic problems had 0 to do with infrastructure, and everything to do with essentially the market and money system breaking down, is a very important difference that makes it a bad comparison to Africa. Europe had taken over and managed Africa's infrastructure. They had developed it only to suit their own needs - so the arbitrary countries they left behind were focused on a few extremely narrow economic areas that European countries needed. And in most cases the exploitation has simply continued unofficially, now just by western corporations rather than states. So many former colonies are locked in a position where their economy relies on a very unstable international market and can't satisfy their own needs. Unlike Germany whose infrastructure wasn't built only to serve some other country's needs.

As for whether replacing Germans with Africans would change anything... To answer that you need to explain what it even implies. For every German, you substitute with an African, with the same education as before, the same job as before, and all other relations being the same... I see no reason why it would be different.
Unless you don't mean to substitute the educations and other things - in which case your comparison is flawed.
Or, unless you think you can make the substitution of people without their ideas. In that case I don't see why you'd speak of cultures being inferior when you evidently mean people and not their ideas.

Tl;dr: I think black people should be treated equally to all other humans. They should all be judged individually and not because they're black. The crime and other problems mentioned will only get worse if we think it is acceptable to consider people inferior because of their biology. If we instead meet people without prejudice, get rid of inheritance and other artifacts of our broken economic system that locks generations into social strata, then the problems can be solved.

Edit: Merged back into the old black people thread excluding some of the latest posts. But please make sure not to break the no racism rules in the future.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 05:05:40 PM by Bla »

atomic7732

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Re: Black people
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2014, 07:33:54 PM »
"Reminder that in Africa people were performing successful cesarean sections and brain surgeries as early as 3,000 b.c.e while whites didn’t even think to wash they asses until hundreds of years later but Africa is always portrayed as some type of monolithic land of savages."

http://www.asbmb.org/asbmbtoday/asbmbtoday_article.aspx?id=32437

interesting

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Re: Black people
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2014, 09:10:08 PM »
No disrespect to any of that but the formatting of that sounds like a really shitty tumblr sjw-esque post

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Re: Black people
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2014, 10:22:31 PM »
"Reminder that in Africa people were performing successful cesarean sections and brain surgeries as early as 3,000 b.c.e

Witch Doctor cuts holes in skulls to "release bad spirits" =/= Brain Surgery

atomic7732

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Re: Black people
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2014, 11:41:48 PM »
No disrespect to any of that but the formatting of that sounds like a really shitty tumblr sjw-esque post
I don't really get this whole anti-sjw mindset, especially when most of the people labelled as such are completely reasonable, and get labeled "gah those fuckin' social justice warriors messin' up the state of the world" just cause they're on tumblr

Of course it's from tumblr, does that make the statement any less valid? Of course not. It applies perfectly to gabriel.dac's viewpoint, so I thought I'd share.

Witch Doctor cuts holes in skulls to "release bad spirits" =/= Brain Surgery
did you even read the link

" Medical procedures performed in ancient Africa before they were performed in Europe include vaccination, autopsy, limb traction and broken bone setting, bullet removal, brain surgery, skin grafting, filling of dental cavities, installation of false teeth, what is now known as Caesarean section, anesthesia and tissue cauterization (3). In addition, African cultures preformed surgeries under antiseptic conditions universally when this concept was only emerging in Europe (2)."

Vaccination and skin grafting sound skeptical to me, but it's just a summary paragraph, and I don't know anything about it. Bullet removal also doesn't sound to me like "ancient Africa", but again, it's a summary. It quite possibly could be referring to differen't things I'm unaware of or situations that could have been clarified better.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 11:48:26 PM by atomic7732 »

Cryo

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Re: Black people
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2014, 11:49:02 PM »
So the discussion continues....

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Re: Black people
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2014, 07:07:02 AM »

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:52:10 AM by FiahOwl »

atomic7732

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Re: Black people
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2014, 12:48:29 PM »
Okay, valid, but the discussion doesn't involve the advancements of the Far or Middle East. It's strictly focused upon Africans being "less advanced" culturally, technologically, whatever, than Europeans.

Cryo

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Re: Black people
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2014, 01:03:14 PM »
Out of curiosity what are your racial backgrounds?

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Re: Black people
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2014, 01:31:03 PM »

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 01:52:05 AM by FiahOwl »

Bla

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Re: Black people
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2014, 01:57:04 PM »
Out of curiosity what are your racial backgrounds?
I'm (and all of my family network I know of and was genetically affected by) from Denmark (and possibly a bit Germany).
(I'm not intending to equate countries with races here, just figured it'd be more specific)

atomic7732

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Re: Black people
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2014, 02:25:51 PM »
Without being one of those people who lists off a bunch of european countries I can reasonably say that I'm a descendant of various western european ethnic groups, and it's very reasonable to assume hispanic + whatever happened in new spain (natives and slaves). Granted, I have a much better traced history in Europe than the New World. :(

All I know on my dad's side is that the name has been taken from some village in Andalusia.

thanks colonialism
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 02:34:40 PM by atomic7732 »

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Re: Black people
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2014, 02:36:01 PM »

Cryo

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Re: Black people
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2014, 02:44:25 PM »
I'm African American without a doubt but my mother and some of her siblings look white/biracial my uncle and grandfather especially he had reddish/brown looking hair his complexion was that a white guys but he was also native American? As well as black but he looked white enough for him to be able to go into "whites" only public areas yeah this was way back.. so what does this make my mother? And her father ?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 04:00:16 PM by Cryo »

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Re: Black people
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2014, 03:51:02 PM »
Out of curiosity what are your racial backgrounds?
Good question.
I'm brazilian, so I don't have any idea. Judging by the physical aspects of my mother and her family, I suspect that they have some kind of brazilian indigenous OR Asian descent, seen that they all have straight hair, short stature, small feet, no beard in male individuals, small eyes... Its almost certain that they have some african descent too.

From my dad, that is somewhat tall (1,9m), moreno (I'm almost sure that american people would call him "brown" or something, but for brazilian standards he is somewhere "between" white and black), has big feet and curly hair and the surname "Silva" (that originated somewhere in portugal for a random family, spread around here as the surname of almost every freed slave), I guess I got a pretty strong african background. I'm not sure of anything besides that, though.

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Re: Black people
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2014, 11:25:52 AM »
I look on YouTube I find out star wars the force awakens teaser trailer is out I have a mini-heart attack I pull my self together watch the holly epicness that is star wars and I look down into the comment sec and I see a sheet storm of racist jerks calling one of the leading cast a "nigger" and other crude and demeaning words. What's wrong with a black stormtrooper? I find this level of ignorance distributing

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Re: Black people
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2014, 11:45:23 AM »
If you find it stupidly ignorant ehy dors it bother you so much?

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Re: Black people
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2014, 02:34:19 PM »
If you find it stupidly ignorant ehy dors it bother you so much?
It's not really nice to be reminded of the fact that you share planet with racists and that kind of people I guess. There was an age when such views were dominant and as a result people have been oppressed, killed, enslaved, forced to the back of buses, to be segregated on the streets, to not be able to marry someone you love, to be met with prejudice and suspicion wherever you go, to be rejected when trying to find jobs, etc. Many of those problems and remnants of them still exist today and affect a lot of people's lives.

I think such people are far worse and much more dangerous to society than e.g. any brony/anti-brony could ever dream of.

Cryo

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Re: Black people
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2014, 05:02:33 PM »
If you find it stupidly ignorant ehy dors it bother you so much?
I wouldn't say bothers me ,i used a Darth Vader quote "disturbing"
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 10:45:39 PM by Cryo »

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Re: Black people
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2014, 10:31:52 PM »
I think such people are far worse and much more dangerous to society than e.g. any brony/anti-brony could ever dream of.


Uh... wat

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Re: Black people
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2014, 12:15:19 AM »
Homophobes, racists, and misogynists can affect and damage society much more than anti-bronies or bronies can. This is because becoming a brony or ceasing to be a brony is extremely easy (read: doesn't impact much of your self image, is possible, and doesn't completely change every aspect of your life) unlike becoming white from being black, becoming straight from being gay, or becoming a man from being a woman. On Wednesday at school, someone said that they've never heard of bronies before.