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General Category => Everything Else => Topic started by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 11:19:43 AM

Title: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 11:19:43 AM
I was thinking for a while that we as a forum should work together to create our                                    ideal language. A language where everything is 100% defined, easy to learn, and easy to comprehend. THIS IS NOT ENGLISH!

Now that that is out of the way... For the first step we should work on word structure and spelling rules.  Basically at this point, just suggest several rules and we'll go from there. Quote and "second" people's ideas and if it's more or less de facto accepted it'll be set in stone in this post or the next one. If you seriously disagree on a rule, just quote and mention it and explain why you don't think the language should incorporate that idea.

Same goes with language name, just suggest ideas or show your support for "Kolkon".

For ease of looking though the main points of the topic, please bold the key phrase(s) which are your main point(s) of your idea/suggestion

I'm here to moderate, compile ideas and their "strength" of support, and suggest my own ideas.

Participants:
atomic7732
Bla
matty406
mudkipz
Naru523
Darvince



Word Structure/Spelling rules
Alphabet

de facto alphabet: adeэfфghiιklnoprsuvxyzж
[20120502 03:17 UTC] Notes: There will be no b, c, j, m, q, t, or w.
[20120508 22:19 UTC] Notes: The addition of ι, ж, э, ф, , , and .
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 11:19:49 AM
placeholder
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on April 30, 2012, 11:21:51 AM
Participants:
atomic7732
Bla

Hmm.

Oh, and feel free to get inspiration from Blaxian. That was my idea to make a new planned, ideal language.
http://bla.wikia.com/wiki/Blaxian (http://bla.wikia.com/wiki/Blaxian)
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: matty406 on April 30, 2012, 11:27:33 AM
well how should it sound? Aggressive, soft, smooth, or completely alien?
Also sites;
http://www.zompist.com/kit.html (http://www.zompist.com/kit.html) - this seems to be the most comprehensive.
http://www.omniglot.com/links/conlangs.htm (http://www.omniglot.com/links/conlangs.htm)

I personally think it should avoid anything sharp, because the accent I've grown up with is pretty 'squishy' it's not got many sharp features except from some glottal stops. (this sounds too demanding I am sorry. :I)
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 11:31:28 AM
Sound? As in speaking? We probably shouldn't worry so much about that.

If you kind of mean like... the letters in the word... consonants to vowel ratio. I was thinking, FILL IT WITH CONSONANTS.

Particularly k, v, z, and f.

this sounds too demanding I am sorry. :I
We're working together. It's fine. :P
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on April 30, 2012, 11:44:22 AM
I tink ve soud sertanly make very very sarp vords!!! Tey ar mus eeseer to pronauns!
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 11:46:56 AM
I tink ve soud sertanly make very very sarp vords!!! Tey ar mus eeseer to pronauns!
Agreed.

Also, on the case of setting up the alphabet in Latin characters. I think we should abolish the letter c for 100% sure. On a personal complaint that the letter b sucks, I also suggest we get rid of it too.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on April 30, 2012, 12:02:18 PM
Yush! And get rid of W, Q,

* Bla was instashot by Atomic
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
W can go, keep q!
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Project (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on April 30, 2012, 12:07:15 PM
But... :'( Q is just ku or "kyu"/"kyou" if you want. :(

Must not into mixed lettars.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 02:57:06 PM
Other opinions? Agreements? Disagreements?

So far
- get rid of c | appears to be consensus
- get rid of b | more opinions required
- get rid of w | consensus so far? more opinions ideal
- get rid of q | needs more opinions
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: vh on April 30, 2012, 03:02:17 PM
i don't like getting rid of 'w'

how would you way 'welcome", or 'whale'?
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 03:15:51 PM
I don't think you get the concept of this project, maybe I wasn't too clear in the topic as opposed to in the IRC. I do not into long blocks of text being fluent and orderly. Anyway, we're creating an entirely new language, a constructed language (hence conlang/konlang).

Because English is stupid. Why would we need to say "welcome". :P
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: vh on April 30, 2012, 03:20:45 PM
kol.

ok i suggest we take out letters

b
c
m
r
s
t
w


they're all to round
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Naru523 on April 30, 2012, 03:27:08 PM
i shall volunteer
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on April 30, 2012, 04:07:06 PM
kill c, j

and keep w, it's very kute
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
ok i suggest we take out letters: m, r, s, t

they're all to round
m is agreeable here.

kill j
Nah, j is legit.

I'm thinking we can use j for the normal j sound and g for the only sound unique to g.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on April 30, 2012, 08:45:49 PM
>implying j has its own sound

its sounds is dzh
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on April 30, 2012, 10:03:24 PM
>implying j has its own sound

its sounds is dzh
Any other sound could be represented with several characters too.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on April 30, 2012, 10:15:33 PM
cool story bro

b can't
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on April 30, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
First B, and now M?

*Suspicious looks from Blas and Mikkels*
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 01, 2012, 03:25:37 AM
We must keep b! I will not tolerate La and Poston!

Bla! Boston! Bla! Boston!
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 01, 2012, 06:46:59 AM
Okay guys, I'm going to try to keep this fast paced, so that we actually get somewhere, so if you need to address anything do it within like 24 hours of the topic starting. I set up a poll here (http://universesandbox.com/forum/index.php/topic,6530.msg67593.html#msg67593) for voting on things. I'm not sure how we should actually determine if the letter gets cut or not...
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on May 01, 2012, 08:00:26 AM
bery bute btomic7732
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 01, 2012, 08:27:36 PM
Okay the next step is adding new Latin, Greek, or Cyrillic characters, this includes accents and other such things along with the sound represented (which will be discussed further later).

I would like to append a character representing Tripian "ii" /eye-eh/ (/aɪ ɛ/), because I really don't think we should have double letters making unique sounds (unless someone disagrees). the character to represent could possibly be ι (Greek iota), and I think the reason to add it is just a variety of sounds and personal desire for a part of Tripian.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: vh on May 01, 2012, 08:29:24 PM
nids more krylik alfabet
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 01, 2012, 08:32:25 PM
I suppose that's close enough to the Latin and Greek scripts.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 02, 2012, 04:34:53 AM
I will be the last forumer who speaks English by the end of this month.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on May 02, 2012, 07:52:03 AM
Kolnop.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: ShoeUnited on May 02, 2012, 09:49:57 AM
As it so happens, I was without internet for a couple of days in February. I got bored and decided to make my own structured language.  I never finished, but this may give some ideas to what you can do.  You'll need something that can view OpenOffice files, of course.  If the files lack some of the structure rules I defined, I'll edit and add them here.  I never finished it (just merely killing time), but as you see a language take shape you keep thinking of more ways and rules that need editing and amendments.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: matty406 on May 02, 2012, 10:06:28 AM
As it so happens, I was without internet for a couple of days in February. I got bored and decided to make my own structured language.  I never finished, but this may give some ideas to what you can do.  You'll need something that can view OpenOffice files, of course.  If the files lack some of the structure rules I defined, I'll edit and add them here.  I never finished it (just merely killing time), but as you see a language take shape you keep thinking of more ways and rules that need editing and amendments.
I totally did this when I was without my laptop. :P
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: ShoeUnited on May 02, 2012, 10:20:01 AM
As it so happens, I was without internet for a couple of days in February. I got bored and decided to make my own structured language.  I never finished, but this may give some ideas to what you can do.  You'll need something that can view OpenOffice files, of course.  If the files lack some of the structure rules I defined, I'll edit and add them here.  I never finished it (just merely killing time), but as you see a language take shape you keep thinking of more ways and rules that need editing and amendments.
I totally did this when I was without my laptop. :P

Haha.  The things we do when we've no internet. :)

As a side note, I've not seen anyone decide or really mention word structures.
Such as the SVO rules (Subject Verb Object).  Not all languages are structured SVO.
Word OrderEnglish EquivalentExample Languages
SVOI love you.English, Mandarin, Russian
SOVI you love.Hindi, Japanese, Latin
VSOLove I you.Hebrew, Irish, Zapotec
VOSLove you I.Baure, Fijian, Malagasy
OVSYou love I.Apalai, Hixkaryana, Tamil
OSVYou I love.Jamamadi, Warao, Xavante

And then you have the entire problem (opportunity) of deciding things.  Do you want pronouns? How do you want to handle possessives?  Plurals?  Prepositions?  Articles?  Conjunctions?  Do you just want to throw all of them out?  Do you want to have the language describe the people (Such as Spanish words ending in "A" or "O")?  Do you want to accept more genders?  Do you want/need of genderless words? (Previous examples: His, Hers, Theirs)  Do you want contractions?  Do you want compounds words?  If so, how many are allowed? (German example: Zweihundertvierundachtzigtausend)  Do you want notations?  Stress symbols in the written language?  How about Hebrew where vowels are understood from context?  How about number rules?  (Much, many, very many)  What about adverbs?  (He goes quickly vs. He goes quick - both describe the same idea generally)  Do you want to forgo SVO and adapt a language that puts priorities on who is addressed first? My language idea was to have certain rules where the person addressed was addressed first then personal statements come after based on vowel-consonant structure.  Hard to describe in short, but makes sense with the contextual setup I was planning.

Anyway, while you're at it.  What kind of numbers system does this language base off of?  You need to think about the society (even an imaginary one) that would need to create its own language.  Is it a desert peoples?  Do they primarily hunt dangerous game?  Are they brutal slavers?  These kinds of questions place priority in a language.  A people who live in a jungle and have never seen desert may have a word for Hot and Sand.  But they may not have one for dry and a hundred for wet.  Knowing what words are going to mean and the society behind them (again real or imaginary) can help develop the language.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on May 02, 2012, 10:30:57 AM
Are you sure Russian has SVO? As far as I know, "I love you" in Russian is "Я тебя либлю / ya tebya liblyu" ("I you love").

Anyway, cool. And our language should have SVAG, or at least SVOG.

And I suggest our language has limitless compounds words, which I think we've already discussed, and I suggest that it should be genderless too (words should not change based on gender of the people they refer to or whether they are an item or a human (not to speak of animals), and nouns, especially items, should not be divided into genders).
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: ShoeUnited on May 02, 2012, 10:43:52 AM
Are you sure Russian has SVO? As far as I know, "I love you" in Russian is "Я тебя либлю / ya tebya liblyu" ("I you love").

Anyway, cool. And our language should have SVAG, or at least SVOG.

And I suggest our language has limitless compounds words, which I think we've already discussed, and I suggest that it should be genderless too (words should not change based on gender of the people they refer to or whether they are an item or a human (not to speak of animals), and nouns, especially items, should not be divided into genders).

I am more than accepting to be wrong.  Hehe.  :) 
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 02, 2012, 11:06:37 AM
Woah woah I think your about 15 steps ahead ShoeUnited! :P

I'm trying to go one step at a time, am I the only person that does this anymore? Whenever I'm working on something people try to suggest things way ahead of time. Before we try to make sentences we need words, you know? ;)
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 02, 2012, 11:46:43 AM
Aeridanian citizens will have to learn two languages, English and Aeridanian. Danish is optional, but is an offical language.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 02, 2012, 03:08:23 PM
Aeridanian citizens will have to learn two languages, English and Aeridanian. Danish is optional, but is an offical language.
This topic has nothing to do with our nations.

So any additions to the alphabet?
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 02, 2012, 06:44:04 PM
Aeridanian citizens will have to learn two languages, English and Aeridanian. Danish is optional, but is an offical language.
This topic has nothing to do with our nations.

So any additions to the alphabet?

I don't fancy buying a custom designed keyboard.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 03, 2012, 05:19:29 PM
No additions? I would have thought Bla might have wanted to add the crossed o thing.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: vh on May 03, 2012, 05:44:35 PM
ж
э
ф
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on May 03, 2012, 11:10:08 PM
klk
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on May 04, 2012, 02:01:50 AM
No additions? I would have thought Bla might have wanted to add the crossed o thing.
We could add , and if you want. I don't care a lot, though, but if we want more vowel sounds for the alphabet we could.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 04, 2012, 04:10:15 AM
Yes yes yes

Add the entire Danish keyboard! Let's all become semidanes who all like to say "smre" (what does it mean bla?) even though they have no idea what it means!
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Bla on May 04, 2012, 04:49:54 AM
To grease or to spread butter on a piece of bread.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 04, 2012, 05:02:33 AM
Cool
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 08, 2012, 03:24:17 PM
[20120502 03:17 UTC] Notes: There will be no b, c, j, m, q, t, or w.
[20120508 22:19 UTC] Notes: The addition of ι, ж, э, ф, , , and .
So we have the letters we know we'll be using, now comes the task of ordering them. I know it isn't really needed, but it'll be useful to have a list.

How about adeэfфghiιklnoprsuvxyzж?

After this we'll decide sounds. Hello IPA!
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 08, 2012, 04:33:25 PM
No b, c, j, m, q, t, or w?

* McBob gives atomic a suspicious look
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 08, 2012, 04:38:27 PM
Aeridani
Ielosia
Lais Laland
Darvinia
Kaeshar
Solea and Rif Auspikitan
Lyinaria
Sphereon Rilmu
Sarrie
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on May 08, 2012, 04:48:44 PM
>sphereon
are you doing this on purpose or what
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on May 08, 2012, 04:49:38 PM
/me facehoofs

Should I maybe link a definition of "conlang" in the first post? Yeah probably not, would be a waste of time.

NEW LANGUAGE SIR! We're not changing English. What would even be the point of that? Besides, when you have a name transferred through languages you tend to have to change some of the characters, do you not?

Welp. I give up. I can't ever be clear enough. Not gonna try anymore.

Made gigantic text on first post that no one that will ask probably even reads.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: vh on May 08, 2012, 05:04:20 PM
WELP
anyway i think kapitalizing letters is poo
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on May 08, 2012, 05:49:32 PM
Sorry atomic, I'm sorry. I feel kinda bad, but I can't really explain why  :-\.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on December 18, 2012, 03:35:57 PM
Okay, reviving this.

I'm just going to go with adeэfфghiιklnoprsuvxyzж being the alphabetical order, but if anyone has objections just... object.

The next step is the sounds that each letter will have. So here's how we'll do this, anyone may propose a list using every letter listed above (in the original post as well) with pronunciations in IPA. Other forms of pronunciation may accompany the IPA, but unless the IPA is listed, it will not be elegible for the vote. There will be 6 days available to submit pronunciations in this topic by 20121225 00:00 UTC, when voting will begin (in the Kolkon Poll Topic). Obviously, to decide and finalize your pronunciations discussions/suggestions/compromises may occur in whatever way we all see fit, and if for some reason this is still going on, the time will be extended before the voting begins. The one with the most votes at the end of the poll time, probably 3 days, will become the official Kolkon alphabet's pronunciation.

Unless people want to vote by letter if there are many pronunciations? Idk, the way the poll works might change, we'll have to wait to see how they come in.

Considering ι was voted in as /aɪ ɛ/, and suggested by me... you may want that to be the pronunciation.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: vh on December 18, 2012, 03:37:53 PM
HEIL KALANUE
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Hellpotatoe on December 18, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
i don't like getting rid of 'w'

how would you way 'welcome", or 'whale'?
ueucom
ueile

I pronounce 'em like this.
"Ai prononse em laique tis"
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: blotz on December 18, 2012, 04:26:09 PM
/me objects
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on December 18, 2012, 04:28:27 PM
Objections make no sense unless you have an alternative.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on December 19, 2012, 09:24:39 PM
/me facepalms
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on December 19, 2012, 09:27:28 PM
Ok so people, just don't post in this topic if you're not contributing to it. You might want to also consider that in other topics too.
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on December 19, 2012, 09:44:33 PM
i can do what i want
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on December 19, 2012, 09:45:47 PM
that wasn't even directed at you
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: FiahOwl on January 04, 2015, 03:19:31 PM
we should restart this
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: atomic7732 on January 04, 2015, 08:21:32 PM
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tb1Y44aRSTF-4AL1IjC_oIFP7MtGzljRc2X4OVriB_g/edit
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: tuto99 on June 13, 2019, 12:54:33 AM
wat
Title: Re: Kollaborative Konlang Projekt (Kolkon)
Post by: Darvince on June 13, 2019, 02:56:48 AM
thank you for your informative bump