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I'm in the process of writing a sci-fi story involving the colonization of 4 fictional solar systems. Unfortunately, not only am I a semi-perfectionist, I suck at science. English is what I'm really good at. So I'm looking for someone to help build and design these four solar systems based on my specifications! Any help would be appreciated! :D
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And I found out that I totally suck at using this program. it is fun to watch planets get sucked into the sun because their mass has changed though!!! :D
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if you planets start falling into the sun, press "O" for autoorbit
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That was just me rambling. It has nothing to do with planets:P
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I need four individual solar systems built, and if possible, put into one simulation. Each solar system must have a minimum of one habitable planet, no more than five. At least six planets each solar system. Only one of the habitable planets can be "earth-like." There also needs to be an asteroid field surrounding and in between the four solar systems. I'm really not sure how deep or shallow this simulator goes, but I need as much detail as possible. Let me know if you can help! It'd be much appreciated.
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I need four individual solar systems built, and if possible, put into one simulation. Each solar system must have a minimum of one habitable planet, no more than five. At least six planets each solar system. Only one of the habitable planets can be "earth-like." There also needs to be an asteroid field surrounding and in between the four solar systems. I'm really not sure how deep or shallow this simulator goes, but I need as much detail as possible. Let me know if you can help! It'd be much appreciated.
Do you want them to be a four-star system, (not five-star :P) or systems spaced FAR AWAY. (like 2 lightyears.)
He said individual, so I'm assuming they are some light years from each other.
Anyways, as for constructing the systems, you can use Bodes Law to determine the position of the planets as described here (http://universesandbox.com/forum/index.php/topic,5034.0.html), theres more resources that can be useful to you as well, including a site where you can generate random planets. Also, if you don't have any specific star types in mind, you can use this thread (http://universesandbox.com/forum/index.php/topic,5516.0.html) to generate random stars.
As for asteroid belts, go to the add tool, click the body you want to put rings around and click any of the ring types (you can change them in the side box). For notable asteroid colonies, you can just plop down any asteroid bodies in the area.
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I also edited my previous post with some tips that he can use.
Oh yea, we should ask whether he wants all of the systems to be in one simulation or not.
Edit: Then again, the asteroid belt between the four systems make it sound like he is talking about a quadrinary group of stars.
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Actually, they need to be less than two months sublight travel away from each other. And if possible, it would be awesome if they could all be in one simulation. Is that do-able? Close, is the same simulation, yet separate solar systems?
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hi i just tell yu have funnie avathar and doesn't afraid of way to many gender changes
GENDER BENDER! DECLARED!
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Uhh..... How fast can we travel now? Would it be doable with a 75% increase from our current speed?
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Excrement. Um... How fast would it have to be? It has to be sublight though.
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Oh goodness.. Um.. Less than two months travel away? :D What would be a good speed for that?
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Drive engines powered by nuclear fusion. Very advanced sensor technology, but no shields or any kind of directed energy weapons. Is that kinda what you were looking for so far as details?
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Uh... My tiny brain doesn't comprehend interstellar distances. :P I really have no idea. That's why I'm asking you guys, the smart people, for help. I just do english, not science or math! D:
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Another thing I'm thinking about is danger to the ships. They have very advanced sensor technology, so they're able to detect even the tiniest thing in their path, but the ships I have in mind aren't going to be very maneuverable. Wouldn't they have to worry about running into asteroids and such?
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It's not the asteroids that they should be worried about, besides, they can be avoided pretty easily. What such a ship REALLY has to worry about is dust particles inthe interplanetary and interstellar medium and micrometeorites, they can wreak havoc on a ship going 99% light speed without some kind of shielding or deflecting mechanism. Unless you want the ships to look like those in the Daedalus project with a big shield in front, some kind of magnetic shielding could do the trick.
Also, how hard-science fiction do you want the story to be? You could probably give yourself a little wriggle room here.
As far as distance goes, a light year is how long light takes to travel in a year(obviously, but bear with me here). To put it into perspective, it takes eight minutes for light to go from the sun to earth, so to travel a light year at sublight speeds means that it will take more than a year to go a light year. Two months at high sublight speeds will probably get you out to the kupier belt or maybe the Oort cloud. That's just a guess of mine, I'm not actually exactly sure.
For interstellar travel, this Wikipedia article should help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel)
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Not very sciency, more fictiony. No aliens or any of that. Just colonization set in an alternate future. There's nothing really "fantastic" about this story. Simple. But I don't want them to be going at 99% light speed. Not even close. I was thinking maybe 50% max? But I'm not very good at math and numbers, so even though I understand the amounts behind light years and such, I can't really get them figured out.
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It's not the asteroids that they should be worried about, besides, they can be avoided pretty easily. What such a ship REALLY has to worry about is dust particles inthe interplanetary and interstellar medium and micrometeorites, they can wreak havoc on a ship going 99% light speed without some kind of shielding or deflecting mechanism. Unless you want the ships to look like those in the Daedalus project with a big shield in front, some kind of magnetic shielding could do the trick.
See, the ships I'm using are massive. Able to house 2.5 million each, easily. They're going to be massive, the kind of ships that blot out the sky when they pass. So do they still have to worry about dust particles? I mean, they're not even going to be CLOSE to going light speed. What do you think?
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Whoops. Somehow I managed to add my text onto your quote.
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Do you have any idea of the kind of damage micrometeorites and small objects can do just orbiting earth? Even 50% light speed is very fast. However, you're right, a ship that massive would be more worried about large objects. You could just slap on some kind of shielding or say that the skin is made of some self repairing material.
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The only kind of shielding these ships will have are more metal, and then maybe some more metal. No nano materials or any kind of self healing materials unfortunately. Really really thick hulls are their only protections against the universe.
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No your heavy sheilding would not be viable, even a micro meteroid the weight of a mosquito (1 miligram) would create an explosion equivalent to 120 tons of tnt. (at 0.99C). ouch.
using targeted gravity beams or maybe proton beams to disintegrate or move particles out of the way would work.
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yeah until you hit a rocky micrometeoroid. ouch.
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You're not listening at all... They don't HAVE magnetic shielding, targeted gravity beams, proton beams, or any kind of energy manipulating technology. At all. They're really not all that much more advanced when we are right now, and in the field of "lasers" they have nothing. Not even as much as we do.
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Guys this isn't star wars, what he wants is some plausible technology.
I'm not completely sure about this, but i know that armour on military vehicles is angled to increase the depth of armour projectiles have to pass through, they also have more chance to ricochet.
My reasoning is, will this work with debris in space? Also, it doesn't have to be 100% hard science does it?
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I want it to be as much science as possible, which is a pain cause I'm an idiot when it comes to science. And I never thought about that. Huh. That's a great idea, if it would work. And thanks for noticing that I wanted plausible. Appreciate it! I really don't want much technology beyond what we have now. In my alternate history, they put way a lot of money into both weapons research and development and space travel, but they kept it as practical as possible. None of this DARPA Iron Curtains or any of that crazy stuff.
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I'm not so knowlageable about science either, a few things here and there but nothing complete. ;)
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Okay. I don't exactly need them to be spread out, really.
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Would we be able to set up "borders" for each solar system? Like, political ones? Not necessarily in the simulation, just would the systems be arranged so that each one of the four systems can be clearly marked, say, maybe some kind of signal buoy, or something? Like, they're not merged together in any way?
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And by the way, I should note that these ships are generation ships. It's going to take them roughly 400 years (shipboard) travel to reach these planets. not sure if that's important or not.
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Guys this isn't star wars, what he wants is some plausible technology.
I'm not completely sure about this, but i know that armour on military vehicles is angled to increase the depth of armour projectiles have to pass through, they also have more chance to ricochet.
My reasoning is, will this work with debris in space? Also, it doesn't have to be 100% hard science does it?
Could work. Alternatively you could put a huge ablation shield in the front since its from that direction that the dust and particles would be a problem. At slower speeds (such as orbital speeds), thick armor will do the job.
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And by the way, I should note that these ships are generation ships. It's going to take them roughly 400 years (shipboard) travel to reach these planets. not sure if that's important or not.
Yes its important because you just changed the timescale and distance, two months travel time does not make a generation ship.
Not to mention we may or may not have to account for time dilation.....
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Question. Would a EuPelagic Subtype planet be capable of supporting humans? And they're not really going to be going at slower speeds:( They're going to go from Earth to these planets, then land, crash, or find a way to get down to the planets surface. Is that plausible? Ships that large being able to land?
No kidding. The ships we're discussing right now will be traveling for 400 or so years shipboard time. Last time I counted, that's at least four generations. What the two month thing is for is the systems these ships are going to. They're going to get there, then land, but there's going to be smaller ships zipping back and forth between the four newly colonized planets. Trade and crap like that.
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And time dilation won't matter, as Earth isn't going to be in the picture.
Or at least it won't matter as much. Only smaller amounts, due to the travel between systems.
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Oh I see. Let me see if I got this right, the ship will have been travelling 400 years and arrive at the quadriple star system and it takes about two months to get from one star to another.
You DON"T want to try landing a ship that large on a planet, believe me. You can just have various bays with landing craft to shuttle colonists and supplies to and from the planet, the ship is big so you could have LOTS of them.
Also, you'll have to explain what you mean by EuPelagic subtype.
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That's about the size of it.
Well yeah, but.. That's a LOT of metal. In the ship, I mean. It's a lot of resources the colonists could really use. So, despite the nightmare of planning I'm sure it would be, would it be possible to land a ship that big on a planet?
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True. Heres an idea, you could have the ship be modular, with sections that can detach and have planetary landing capability somehow.
As for landing a ship that big on a planet, that is going to require technologies that don't even exist right now.
Maybe you can give us an idea of what the ship looks like? We already get that its huge, but what are the general dimensions.
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http://arcbuilder.home.bresnan.net/PCLMaster.html (http://arcbuilder.home.bresnan.net/PCLMaster.html)
It's a list of planet types and stuff. (it's where I got the EuPelagic subtype thing.)
And as for dimensions? I really don't know. It houses 2.5 million people (that number is constantly fluctuating, by the way) comfortably, if that's any help. I'm not very good with dimensions:/
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As for the EuPelagic subtype, if there is no land, your colonists can't land on it, unless you want underwater cities.
For the ship, it depends on how cramped you want it to be. Around 10-20 km long and several km in diameter maybe? It's going to have to be the size of a city thats for sure.
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ice. metal is expensive. ice is plentiful and cheap. saltwater ice, fresh water ice, it doesn't matter. use ice. as ablative armor
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I don't want it to be cramped. I want it to be fairly comfortable. More of the feeling of a space station than a ship. And ice? Hmm... That would work. Where would we find such quantities though?
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Hmm... There's no land? Dang. See, remember your idea about modular ships? They're going to be like that. There's going to be a mini-colony that breaks off at one of the planets. Ummm.... I don't know. My brain hurts! :P
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I don't want it to be cramped. I want it to be fairly comfortable. More of the feeling of a space station than a ship. And ice? Hmm... That would work. Where would we find such quantities though?
Comets maybe? Such a ship would take a long time to build, stock, and populate anyway. As for the dimensions, just go with what would make sense to you.
For the planet, if you just want one with lots of water, a GaianPelagic subdivision will work. The ship is carrying 2.5 million, not 2 billion, so overpopulation won't be an issue on initial planetfall.
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Well see, the reason I want a watery planet with small land masses is more of a plot point than a science thing. somewhere in their destination solar system, they discover a planet like that, and a small fraction, maybe 100,000 or so, decide they want to stay rather than continuing on to the destination planet. Oooh... Ouch. Just had a thought which may screw that up. Is it possible to have multiple habitable planets orbiting the same star?
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Depends on how you define habitable. If you have it broad enough to equal mars, then yes definetly, if you mean life supporting, it's a little harder, but still very possible. Either way, that's a yes, you'd have at most three, maybe four, inside the habitable zone. Had Mars not lost it's magnetic field, life would certainly have evolved there.
Take this system I uploaded as an example. One is probably comparable to Earth in an extreme ice age. The average temp is cold, but still above freezing and is survivable with adaptations, the other one goes through a more extreme temperature change, but is still certainly capable of supporting life.
For the planet, GaianPelagic is what you want, 80-99% covered by water. Think Earth with all the ice caps melted, and perhaps then some.
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Oh. Okay!
On a totally unrelated note, FiahOwl, would it be alright if I used Aeridani Space Industry as the company that makes the engines for the ships in the stories?
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Which ones are the habitable ones?
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The first two, Pnhlb and Fdcsshuu, their average temperatures are 93.5 F (range is 58-129 F) and 33.5 F respectively.
To see the temperatures, click on the planetary body, select the middle tab, scroll down a bit and select planetary temperatures.
You can change the names to something more pronounceable by the human tongue if you want to. Also, you have my permission to use those two if you want. Not sure how it'll fit into a quadrinary system though, or maybe Fiah can just transplant the star and two planets.
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As for the EuPelagic subtype, if there is no land, your colonists can't land on it
LMFAO
You'd think it would be obvious if you read the class and subtype descriptions.
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I don't want it to be cramped. I want it to be fairly comfortable. More of the feeling of a space station than a ship. And ice? Hmm... That would work. Where would we find such quantities though?
Moons, comets, planets ( think Pluto)
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I don't want it to be cramped. I want it to be fairly comfortable. More of the feeling of a space station than a ship. And ice? Hmm... That would work. Where would we find such quantities though?
Moons, comets, planets ( think Pluto)
Just strap Pluto onto your ship and you'll be fine and dandy. :P
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Thanks FiahOwl! I appreciate it:D If this ever goes beyond being just a personal project, and I end up selling it, I'll make sure to give you full credit, and also a small percentage of the royalties if you want.
And Pluto.. You mean like mining Pluto to get that much ice? Wouldn't that affect it's orbit though?
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it would
All depends on how much you mine
But Matty has best solution
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Will do. I'm not 18 either. Anyway, here's the small description I wrote of A.S.I. for the story.
Aeridani Space Industries. [A.S.I.] This technological juggernaut is at the leading edge of space-based technologies. One of the few companies that has international contracts, A.S.I is known for its pioneering spirit and revolutionary thinking, so it was only natural that they were the ones contracted by each of the worlds governments when the colonization opportunities arose. Rather than using this as an opportunity to gain money, they did something far more valuable. The price that each government had to pay in return for their services was guaranteed immunity for any and all A.S.I. ships and workers, and a place on each ship of the Generation class that would be leaving Earth. As a result, they are the first private corporation to ever establish a foothold outside of Earth. In the new systems, having a job with A.S.I. is a mark of honor.
Just thought you might find that interesting.
And you say it wouldn't affect the orbit? Alright then, sounds good.
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It would affect its orbit
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How much depends on how much you mine. A large ship would need a huge ice shield, definitely change pluto's orbit a bit
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Could we mine the asteroids for metal instead?
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Yes, but metal is expensive a valuable. Ice is cheap and no one cares about Pluto.
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Maybe so, but wouldn't Pluto's orbit being screwed up affect the rest of the solar system in various ways?
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No, the effect would be infinitesimal over such large distances
And mining out asteroids would make the same exact effect
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Alright. Pluto it is then! Thanks. We'll set to building the ships right away. Um.. And what about this "ablative shielding?" How does it work?
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Ice, ablative
It's basically putting a bunch of material ( ice) to block debris. That's all
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But wouldn't that make it so that the engines have to work harder? I mean, wouldn't that be very un-areodynam.... Oh. They're in space, that doesn't matter, does it..
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But wouldn't that make it so that the engines have to work harder? I mean, wouldn't that be very un-areodynam.... Oh. They're in space, that doesn't matter, does it..
Longer to accelerate, but even if you accelerate at 1g, not too uncomfortable, only take 9 years to 0.9 light speed.
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GaianPaludial Subdivision These are EuGaian worlds with 30 to 50% water coverage, where land features tend to have low surface relief, forming extensive swamplands, lakes, lushly forested regions, and semi-open woodland. The climate is predominantly oceanic, with relatively open ocean flow and freedom for globe-spanning weather systems to keep a largely homogenous planetary temperature. Polar regions do tend towards glaciation, however. The geographical arrangement is typically due to a decrease in geological activity, and tends to be common for lower mass, older Gaian worlds.
Can we have one of these, plus a gas giant with habitable moons in the same system?
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GaianPaludial Subdivision These are EuGaian worlds with 30 to 50% water coverage, where land features tend to have low surface relief, forming extensive swamplands, lakes, lushly forested regions, and semi-open woodland. The climate is predominantly oceanic, with relatively open ocean flow and freedom for globe-spanning weather systems to keep a largely homogenous planetary temperature. Polar regions do tend towards glaciation, however. The geographical arrangement is typically due to a decrease in geological activity, and tends to be common for lower mass, older Gaian worlds.
Sounds like a terraformed Mars.
Besides what Fiah said about the gas giant, you could put a large gas giant (I honestly have no idea what the minimum gas giant size is needed to hold earth size moons in a stable orbit, so you could fudge around here) and have the planet be a satellite of the gas giant, two birds with one stone so to speak.
Also, as far as mining ice, it doesn't have to be JUST Pluto, you could mine ice from various locations, heck, have the ship park in the Kupier belt for a while and mine the whole belt.
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Nah. I want to have them be separate form each other. One larger planet for the main colony, and the moons to have other things.
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Crap:/ Umm.. So we would have to go with the planet orbiting the gas giant?
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If you have a close orbiting binary with a period of many years, you could have the GaianPaludial type world around one star with the gas giant around the other star of the binary pair. Will that work for you?
Still, you can have a gas giant in the same system as the habitable planet, it just won't be in the habitable zone.
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one station at one planet is better than 10 stations at 10 comets. 10 times as complicated. 10 times the risk. No I think Pluto will have yo do
GaianPaludial Subdivision These are EuGaian worlds with 30 to 50% water coverage, where land features tend to have low surface relief, forming extensive swamplands, lakes, lushly forested regions, and semi-open woodland. The climate is predominantly oceanic, with relatively open ocean flow and freedom for globe-spanning weather systems to keep a largely homogenous planetary temperature. Polar regions do tend towards glaciation, however. The geographical arrangement is typically due to a decrease in geological activity, and tends to be common for lower mass, older Gaian worlds.
Sounds like a terraformed Mars.
Besides what Fiah said about the gas giant, you could put a large gas giant (I honestly have no idea what the minimum gas giant size is needed to hold earth size moons in a stable orbit, so you could fudge around here) and have the planet be a satellite of the gas giant, two birds with one stone so to speak.
Also, as far as mining ice, it doesn't have to be JUST Pluto, you could mine ice from various locations, heck, have the ship park in the Kupier belt for a while and mine the whole belt.
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It's up to Raven whether he wants to have a network of ice miners or just use one from someplace such as Pluto.
Don't forget Plutos moons either, they are right there so may as well use them if you want.
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Why do something with more whe you can do with less. Pick one body, and carve it out with lasers, strap it on yo spacecraft
Better yet, pick a comet, take a giant slice ( just slice out the nucleus in 1 piece)
And strap it on somrhow
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According to Raven, they don't really have lasers, or at least they aren't as advanced as ours are.....
I get your point though.
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Don't have to have advanced lasers, we use lasers to carve out many things already.
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mechanically would be very difficult
Use a blowtorch then
an army of blowtorch wielding ice cutters
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No
Loxy tanks
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Loxy is liquid oxygen
It'll burn all right.
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No
Loxy tanks
But Fiah doesn't burn unless in an oxygen enviorment?!
Uh, rocket engines? Loxy IS oxygen.....
Secondarily, any oxygen ice mined out could be used to replenish the Lox stockpiles. Unless the burnt Lox falls back as burnt snow or something....
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Okay, so we can use Pluto for the ice.
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you could. the more i think about it however, i think a comet would be better. A comet is spherelike. Just cut horizontally, two cuts, parralel to each other. you are left over with a huge thick circle, perfect for a sheild and the right shape.
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impracticle.
Graphene is hard to manufacture in large quantities, we've only made several sheets.
Also it comes in thin sheets, if a micrometeriod hit, the meteor would make a dent in the material if not a rip/tear/hole.
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yeah he said today or with near-future technology. i think.
also "Also it comes in thin sheets, if a micrometeriod hit, the meteor would make a dent in the material if not a rip/tear/hole."
imagine a perfectly spherical aluminum foil ball. If you shoot a pellet at it, it'll have a hole. If you cover the aluminum foil in a thin bullet proof material and shoot a pellet, your foil ball with have a dent in it. Dents accumulate and are not good.
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ok, i can see that happening
however, still extremely expensive and unreusable.
A single meteor 5 grams in size would puncture several centimeters of this material (wolfram alpha and a lot of physics formulas).
A micrometor might puncture several hundred meters of ice at high speeds, but ice is so much cheaper, and a better solution.
also metric is awesome.
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assuming the cost of graphene goes down 50% each year, very generous, and construction starts in 20 years future technology, the sheild dimensions 10km by 10km by 2m thick, the cost would be 6 billion billion, 3 times the value of the total productivity of humans on earth. ever.
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no. it'd just take longer to accelerate. Human bodies can't sustain more than 1.1G for long periods of time anyway, so no need for very powerful engines. (90 years to accelerate to full speed). Assuming the ship is 10km by 10km by 50 km, a rough estimate, and a density of 0.8g/cm^3 it would be 4 trillion metric tons. Ice sheild at 10km by 10km by 4 km thick would weigh 400 billion metric tons, 10% more, relatively insignificant.
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some quick calculations; the engine will need a thrust of 4,000 trillion newtons constantly for 90 years to acheive max speed (0.9C)
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no. it'd just take longer to accelerate. Human bodies can't sustain more than 1.1G for long periods of time anyway, so no need for very powerful engines. (90 years to accelerate to full speed). Assuming the ship is 10km by 10km by 50 km, a rough estimate, and a density of 0.8g/cm^3 it would be 4 trillion metric tons. Ice sheild at 10km by 10km by 4 km thick would weigh 400 billion metric tons, 10% more, relatively insignificant.
Sorry to drop off the face off the earth for years then re-appear, but if you're still there, would it be possible for humans to survive at more than 1.1G if they were somehow altered through surgery or over a few generations somehow? Thanks a million in advance if you do help, and thanks anyway if not!!!
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(http://i.space.com/images/i/14626/i02/interstellar-space-travel-concepts-adrian-mann-23.jpg)
Icarus Graphene
Credit: Adrian Mann
This Icarus concept starship uses Graphene as a shield material to protect the vehicle during the voyage to another star.
(http://i.space.com/images/i/14624/i02/interstellar-space-travel-concepts-adrian-mann-21.jpg)
Icarus Balloons
Credit: Adrian Mann
Another spaceship fuel-mining scheme involves balloon miners in the atmosphere of Uranus, where gases would be collected and processed, and then carried to the fuelling site by smaller tanker spacecraft.
Some inspiration ;)
Thank you FiahOwl!! I'll definitely use the second part, about the miners. That sounds super useful. One thing I'm not sure about is the shape of the ship. I'd probably need someone who's both knowledgeable in science and a good artist to come up with something. XD At this rate, the "Special thanks to" part of the novel will be as long as the actual novel. XD
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Oh dear god so many things have changed in my story since then. .-. Looking back, I realize how difficult I was making things. Hopefully now it's a little better. So question for you, Fiah, is it still okay if I use A.S.I.? If so, I'm actually going to make them a fairly significant part of the story. I figured I should ask again, since last time I asked was years ago. XD Also, all the stuff I was saying about the systems being less than 2 months away I've scrapped. I've decided on closer to nine months, give or take three months. One system will be a full year and a half away from the unofficial center of the area. So lots have changed, but a lot of these old posts are still SUPER helpful. Yay for helpful people who understand science better than I do!!!
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I make sure my Olheria project is physically and natrually practical. You are free to use ideas from their (just remember to credit me! :D)
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If I find anything that nabs me, I definitely will!!! I don't think I'm going to have aliens in my story, but maybe I'll include some kind of ruins or something like that from your race. XD If I do, you'll definitely go into the special thanks section. XD
Twice, actually, for ideas AND sciency help!!