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Author Topic: Habitable zone display issue on more massive stars?  (Read 2794 times)

SyzygyΣE

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Habitable zone display issue on more massive stars?
« on: December 29, 2016, 08:31:24 AM »
Are habitable zones meant to look like the following? This occurs when I create a star several times more massive than the sun. When I do so, the habitable zone is still displayed, but shows a direct transition from a red hue to a green hue, with the absence of any blue hue whatsoever. I understand that more massive stars tend to correlate to higher temperature and luminosity, and hence a larger habitable zone. But even then, I don't understand why only 2 of the 3 colours are displayed. It is difficult to place a planet in the right area of the habitable zone this way.

I apologise in advance if this has been mentioned before. The last topic related to a similar issue seemed to be in July after I looked around here to see if anyone else was experiencing the same. Therefore, I would like to reconfirm.

I have attached the file of an example system in which this occurs, an image of the display issue, and my player.log file. I hope it's the right one. I am using a Mac device with Alpha 19.4.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Habitable Zone Display Issue
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 02:52:00 AM by SyzygyΣE »

JMBuilder

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Re: Habitable zone display issue on more massive stars?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 09:07:56 PM »
Giants and supergiants actually tend to have smaller habitable zones. While their temperature and luminosity are higher, there are also more lethal levels of radiation.

I'm not sure if these zones accurately depict this phenomenon.

If you're using a main-sequence star, this might be a bug. The system might have trouble differentiating between a large main-sequence star and a small giant star.

SyzygyΣE

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Re: Habitable zone display issue on more massive stars?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 10:35:58 PM »
Giants and supergiants actually tend to have smaller habitable zones. While their temperature and luminosity are higher, there are also more lethal levels of radiation.

I'm not sure if these zones accurately depict this phenomenon.

If you're using a main-sequence star, this might be a bug. The system might have trouble differentiating between a large main-sequence star and a small giant star.

Oh, I see. I guess smaller habitable zones on larger stars do make sense, then. My knowledge on this area is still pretty limited. ;D

The example in the attached image is just a random star I slotted in from the "Random Known Star" tab. As for whether it is a main sequence, I'm not too sure. However, as you said, if I do place down a main sequence star, say, from the "Random Main Sequence Star" tab, and simply up its mass beyond about 3 solar masses, the display issue occurs. You can try to replicate the problem that way.

If this is in fact an accurate representation of habitable zones on larger stars, I find the transition a little strange. Once the mass of the star reaches the critical point of 3 solar masses or so, the "normal" habitable zone of the red, green and blue hues instantly disappears, and is replaced by new display shown in the image I attached at a much further distance away from the star. I have to zoom out a fair bit to see it. Is this sudden jump correct?

JMBuilder

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Re: Habitable zone display issue on more massive stars?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2016, 12:49:57 AM »
If this is in fact an accurate representation of habitable zones on larger stars, I find the transition a little strange. Once the mass of the star reaches the critical point of 3 solar masses or so, the "normal" habitable zone of the red, green and blue hues instantly disappears, and is replaced by new display shown in the image I attached at a much further distance away from the star. I have to zoom out a fair bit to see it. Is this sudden jump correct?

Not entirely sure about that. Hotter main-sequence stars should have larger, more distant habitable zones than cooler stars. As I said, it might be a bug.

I'm working on the Lylat System from my childhood-favorite game, and the largest star is a blue giant. Despite the wonky habitable zone, I can still make "habitable" planets within the red zone with very good "life likelihoods."

Life as we know it can't survive the levels of radiation from giant stars, but what do we know? There may very well be some kind of radiophilic life out there. Interestingly enough, there's a species of fungus that is radiotrophic, able to feed on nuclear radiation similar to how plants use light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus

In the case of my Lylat recreation, I'm going as far as explaining how the Cornerians (the main inhabitants of Lylat) have six nucleotide bases in their DNA, allowing them to thrive in the intense radiation and making them incredibly diverse in appearance. This also acts as an "alternate" explanation for their species to make them more believable instead of a bunch of corny humanoid animals.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 01:02:32 AM by JMBuilder »

SyzygyΣE

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Re: Habitable zone display issue on more massive stars?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2016, 02:34:59 AM »
Not entirely sure about that. Hotter main-sequence stars should have larger, more distant habitable zones than cooler stars. As I said, it might be a bug.

I'm working on the Lylat System from my childhood-favorite game, and the largest star is a blue giant. Despite the wonky habitable zone, I can still make "habitable" planets within the red zone with very good "life likelihoods."

Life as we know it can't survive the levels of radiation from giant stars, but what do we know? There may very well be some kind of radiophilic life out there. Interestingly enough, there's a species of fungus that is radiotrophic, able to feed on nuclear radiation similar to how plants use light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus

In the case of my Lylat recreation, I'm going as far as explaining how the Cornerians (the main inhabitants of Lylat) have six nucleotide bases in their DNA, allowing them to thrive in the intense radiation and making them incredibly diverse in appearance. This also acts as an "alternate" explanation for their species to make them more believable instead of a bunch of corny humanoid animals.
Hmm, maybe you are right. It does make sense, despite how strange it can appear. The large red area may very well signal that the temperature there is acceptable for a habitable planet, but the radiation levels are too high. I have done a little testing by placing a planet on the outskirts of these zones on the larger stars—the thin strip of green on the edge. It seems that the temperature in this green zone is rather low, as water occurs as ice, but perhaps the levels of radiation are sufficiently low.

I have made a few systems but nothing too spectacular when it comes to being around any massive and luminous star, partly because I really wasn't sure about this display issue. Before this, I didn't really consider radiation levels in such stars so it always seemed odd. But, I suppose it does induce a greater aspect of realism, regardless of whether the display is in fact correct. Thanks for your insight. :)

SyzygyΣE

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Re: Habitable zone display issue on more massive stars?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 02:49:57 AM »
I just remembered this thread and thought I might as well post a video to show everyone the phenomenon. Do note that, while I set the age of the star to 0 in the video, the age doesn't really affect whether this problem occurs or not. I believe it is more likely to be luminosity or temperature increasing past a certain point that triggers the issue.

Habitable Zone Display Issue